Comments on: Why should we believe in the Bible? http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/ A Catholic Social Commentary Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:08:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Por qué odio la Religión, pero amo a Jesús – El golpe bajo « Contra Babel http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-85545 Por qué odio la Religión, pero amo a Jesús – El golpe bajo « Contra Babel Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:57:16 +0000 http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=903#comment-85545 [...] [...] [...] [...]

]]> By: DWPittelli http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-85505 DWPittelli Fri, 20 Jan 2012 01:20:30 +0000 http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=903#comment-85505 If He was illiterate, He might have been drawing a picture or diagram. (Perhaps a picture of a man and a woman, implicitly asking: where's the man who is guilty along with this woman?) That said, there are other reasons to believe he was literate, as others have commented. If He was illiterate, He might have been drawing a picture or diagram. (Perhaps a picture of a man and a woman, implicitly asking: where’s the man who is guilty along with this woman?) That said, there are other reasons to believe he was literate, as others have commented.

]]> By: Geoffrey Cornish http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-84956 Geoffrey Cornish Tue, 17 Jan 2012 05:10:23 +0000 http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=903#comment-84956 With regard to the MEANING AND MESSAGE the singer of the song intended far above... From the top, I have read this long listing of thoughts, arguments and counter arguments. Yet none have addressed what role the leadership of the church should have been (but has failed at) playing in global affairs for the last two centuries, nor why it now plays so small a role. Yet we all know why .Perhaps it is simply because it is incapable of creating and emitting an appealing enough vision that any and every nation of people can follow true credible substance with confidence. Sadly, the current truth is largely, and most especially because of the disgraceful behavior of the priesthood of the Catholic Church and it's failing Hierarchy around the globe, that few Christians are even calling for a Faith Leader from this structure to play any part at all. For it's own sins, and all but completely eroded credibility... The Catholic Church as an institution, is far from holding any seriously agreed legitimacy in the mind of the public at large relating to the Word of Jesus Christ. It knows not where to go, nor what to say to lead anyone, even in it's own congregations. Few if any secular people and few true Christians are calling for the leaders of the Great Christian Faiths to be a part of any new global vision and leadership. Therein lies the truthful and sad weakness of the religious hierarchies of the modern time. This is what the song was all about, its an anthem for the new generations aimed against the concept of institutionally sinful and self-perpetuating large corporate-like hierarchies who "manage" faiths in and of themselves. No amount of self-serving justifications, and complex biblical apologetics or theologically semantic diversions built from the bible, can hide this sad situation. Yet the entire globe needs both a re-invention of the true faith, relief from oppression and the power hungry and everlasting change from political dogma that is also failing. Even in the USA, where the faith is theoretically strong, there are so many petty denominations full of complex liturgy about what each does and does not micro-morally believe or not believe, that faith itself has become a laughing stock in the eyes of many True Christians. We go shopping for churches to suit our purpose. Heck, most churches hierarchies are much like the Taliban in their attitudes to women. Female surgeons and soldiers can protect, and save the lives of priests and the free but are not fit or accepted to read stories from the Good Book and interpret them. Would Jesus approve of this kind of power and dogma ? I think not. Most church bishops and leaders are pre-possessed with maintaining long out-dated doctrinal positions and proving the infallibility of their own decisions and policies, which the bible itself says they do not have any hope of being right about. "Where to ?" is the question most every Christian would like to ask. Yet they do not even think of going to look for wisdom and a new vision from their church pastors or politicians. NO one thinks the answer they would get would be anything other than predictably, "Go out and dedicate your life to Christ and convert 3 billion muslims and 2 billion non- believers to Christ. Would a really wise God who made this universe as it is firstly call on anyone to do this and them really appoint priests in churches who job it is to respond with such inanity ? I pray daily for better guidance and a vision for the future ... With regard to the MEANING AND MESSAGE the singer of the song intended far above…
From the top, I have read this long listing of thoughts, arguments and counter arguments. Yet none have addressed what role the leadership of the church should have been (but has failed at) playing in global affairs for the last two centuries, nor why it now plays so small a role. Yet we all know why .Perhaps it is simply because it is incapable of creating and emitting an appealing enough vision that any and every nation of people can follow true credible substance with confidence. Sadly, the current truth is largely, and most especially because of the disgraceful behavior of the priesthood of the Catholic Church and it’s failing Hierarchy around the globe, that few Christians are even calling for a Faith Leader from this structure to play any part at all. For it’s own sins, and all but completely eroded credibility… The Catholic Church as an institution, is far from holding any seriously agreed legitimacy in the mind of the public at large relating to the Word of Jesus Christ. It knows not where to go, nor what to say to lead anyone, even in it’s own congregations. Few if any secular people and few true Christians are calling for the leaders of the Great Christian Faiths to be a part of any new global vision and leadership. Therein lies the truthful and sad weakness of the religious hierarchies of the modern time. This is what the song was all about, its an anthem for the new generations aimed against the concept of institutionally sinful and self-perpetuating large corporate-like hierarchies who “manage” faiths in and of themselves. No amount of self-serving justifications, and complex biblical apologetics or theologically semantic diversions built from the bible, can hide this sad situation. Yet the entire globe needs both a re-invention of the true faith, relief from oppression and the power hungry and everlasting change from political dogma that is also failing. Even in the USA, where the faith is theoretically strong, there are so many petty denominations full of complex liturgy about what each does and does not micro-morally believe or not believe, that faith itself has become a laughing stock in the eyes of many True Christians. We go shopping for churches to suit our purpose. Heck, most churches hierarchies are much like the Taliban in their attitudes to women. Female surgeons and soldiers can protect, and save the lives of priests and the free but are not fit or accepted to read stories from the Good Book and interpret them. Would Jesus approve of this kind of power and dogma ? I think not. Most church bishops and leaders are pre-possessed with maintaining long out-dated doctrinal positions and proving the infallibility of their own decisions and policies, which the bible itself says they do not have any hope of being right about. “Where to ?” is the question most every Christian would like to ask. Yet they do not even think of going to look for wisdom and a new vision from their church pastors or politicians. NO one thinks the answer they would get would be anything other than predictably, “Go out and dedicate your life to Christ and convert 3 billion muslims and 2 billion non- believers to Christ. Would a really wise God who made this universe as it is firstly call on anyone to do this and them really appoint priests in churches who job it is to respond with such inanity ? I pray daily for better guidance and a vision for the future …

]]> By: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus — The Smackdown | Bad Catholic http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-84027 Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus — The Smackdown | Bad Catholic Thu, 12 Jan 2012 21:04:43 +0000 http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=903#comment-84027 [...] [...] [...] [...]

]]> By: John http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-83383 John Mon, 09 Jan 2012 09:00:58 +0000 http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=903#comment-83383 We can reason something out that seems to make sense to us but it still may be incorrect. We all tend to put things in neat little bins in our mind and think because it fits so comfortably that it must be a fact. The Apostle Paul said in Romans 9:1, "I am speaking the truth in Christ. I am not lying; my conscience by the Holy Spirit bearing witness with me. He knew he was right because it bore witness with his spirit and not because his reasoning said it was right. I know the mind and the spirit work together but the spirit should always be honored above the mind. John We can reason something out that seems to make sense to us but it still may be incorrect. We all tend to put things in neat little bins in our mind and think because it fits so comfortably that it must be a fact.
The Apostle Paul said in Romans 9:1, “I am speaking the truth in Christ. I am not lying; my conscience by the Holy Spirit bearing witness with me. He knew he was right because it bore witness with his spirit and not because his reasoning said it was right. I know the mind and the spirit work together but the spirit should always be honored above the mind. John

]]> By: Matthew Warner http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-81832 Matthew Warner Mon, 02 Jan 2012 15:11:29 +0000 http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=903#comment-81832 John - I can understand your point of view. But I also think it's important to spend time, as we are here, asking what those two commandments mean. How should we live them out? What does it mean to love God with all your heart? What does it mean to love your neighbor? Who is my neighbor? Could it mean spending time trying to figure out the hard parts about God that we don't fully understand? Could it mean spending time trying to answer hard questions about Him even when those things lead to <a href="http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/on-to-something-big/" rel="nofollow">more questions</a>? God gave us His Church and through His Church, the Bible as ways to know him and to help answer these questions. Further, God gave us our rational minds in order that we could come to know him better, by seeking out truth in all its forms. So I wouldn't so easily cast aside such attempts here. But I also agree that the experiential side of our faith is just as, if not more, convincing. And it's important that these ideas don't remain simply ideas or hypothesis, but that they are things we test and try in order to fully experience them and therefore be even more convicted of them. But I'm also weary of a kind of <a href="http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/are-you-looking-for-a-simple-religion/" rel="nofollow">over-simplified religion</a> that has no use for these kinds of important discussions. God bless you. John – I can understand your point of view. But I also think it’s important to spend time, as we are here, asking what those two commandments mean. How should we live them out? What does it mean to love God with all your heart? What does it mean to love your neighbor? Who is my neighbor? Could it mean spending time trying to figure out the hard parts about God that we don’t fully understand? Could it mean spending time trying to answer hard questions about Him even when those things lead to more questions? God gave us His Church and through His Church, the Bible as ways to know him and to help answer these questions.

Further, God gave us our rational minds in order that we could come to know him better, by seeking out truth in all its forms. So I wouldn’t so easily cast aside such attempts here.

But I also agree that the experiential side of our faith is just as, if not more, convincing. And it’s important that these ideas don’t remain simply ideas or hypothesis, but that they are things we test and try in order to fully experience them and therefore be even more convicted of them. But I’m also weary of a kind of over-simplified religion that has no use for these kinds of important discussions.

God bless you.

]]> By: John http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-81829 John Mon, 02 Jan 2012 14:53:03 +0000 http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=903#comment-81829 I am not a Bible time historian but I think it is wonderful for the people who feel a need to investigate things like this. I was brought up to believe in the Bible that has 66 books in it. I couldn’t tell much about it really until I accepted Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. This comment is for those who are a little perplexed about this question. God knows we were formed from the dust and that we are human. People are dying lost everyday while we are trying to come up with a convincing explanation of how we know the Bible is the true and inspired Word of God. We can’t save people and we are not smart enough answer this question without being faced with another question about our answer. If we will seek Him with all our hearts and start living our lives each day for Him then He will help us get by this. If you can’t decide if you should be a protestant or a catholic then just work on these two commandments. They will keep you busy for at least a life time. Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. John I am not a Bible time historian but I think it is wonderful for the people who feel a need to investigate things like this. I was brought up to believe in the Bible that has 66 books in it. I couldn’t tell much about it really until I accepted Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. This comment is for those who are a little perplexed about this question. God knows we were formed from the dust and that we are human. People are dying lost everyday while we are trying to come up with a convincing explanation of how we know the Bible is the true and inspired Word of God. We can’t save people and we are not smart enough answer this question without being faced with another question about our answer. If we will seek Him with all our hearts and start living our lives each day for Him then He will help us get by this.
If you can’t decide if you should be a protestant or a catholic then just work on these two commandments. They will keep you busy for at least a life time.
Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
John

]]> By: 5 More Things No One Knows Are Ridiculously Catholic, But Should | Bad Catholic http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-81359 5 More Things No One Knows Are Ridiculously Catholic, But Should | Bad Catholic Fri, 30 Dec 2011 18:04:20 +0000 http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=903#comment-81359 [...] The BibleThought I’d throw this one in. Matt Warner, who blogs over at Fallible Blogma, has the lowdown.“It is also undisputed, historical fact that the Catholic Church set and confirmed the New [...] [...] The BibleThought I’d throw this one in. Matt Warner, who blogs over at Fallible Blogma, has the lowdown.“It is also undisputed, historical fact that the Catholic Church set and confirmed the New [...]

]]> By: Matthew Warner http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-81247 Matthew Warner Fri, 30 Dec 2011 06:47:04 +0000 http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=903#comment-81247 KAY - it's not "quite a jump" really. That's kind of the point. After all, it is through His Church that Jesus gave us the Bible. So, actually, it's a much, much greater "jump" to get to belief in the Bible without the Church. The rest of your comments are either straw men, a misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church is and teaches, or a product of misusing the bible. Catholic teaching recognizes Jesus Christ as the source and summit of our faith. He is the one we follow and give "allegiance" to infinitely above all things. However, scripture (and Christ himself) speaks at length about the Church. In 1 Timothy 3:15, we are told that the “pillar and bulwark” of the truth is The Church. Jesus says in Matthew 5 that the Church is the light of the world. So obviously Jesus meant for his Church to play a pretty important role too. In fact, it is so wrapped up with Him that scripture calls the Church "His Body." It's also called His bride. Bottom line: If you want to get to know Christ...if you want to be one with Christ, get to know and get in communion with His Church. Additionally, if we look at the early Christians, they are explicitly and clearly practicing Catholics. They believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the sacrifice of the Mass, Apostolic succession, etc. The same Catholic Church today holds the same beliefs that they did. A few links you may find helpful: <a href="http://fallibleblogma.com/?s=antioch" rel="nofollow">Some early church stuff</a> <a target="_blank"href="http://www.catholic.com/documents/pillar-of-fire-pillar-of-truth" rel="nofollow">Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth</a> <a href="http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-do-catholics-believe-in-things-not-in-the-bible/" rel="nofollow">Why do Catholics Believe things not in the Bible?</a> Peace be with you. KAY – it’s not “quite a jump” really. That’s kind of the point. After all, it is through His Church that Jesus gave us the Bible. So, actually, it’s a much, much greater “jump” to get to belief in the Bible without the Church.

The rest of your comments are either straw men, a misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church is and teaches, or a product of misusing the bible. Catholic teaching recognizes Jesus Christ as the source and summit of our faith. He is the one we follow and give “allegiance” to infinitely above all things. However, scripture (and Christ himself) speaks at length about the Church. In 1 Timothy 3:15, we are told that the “pillar and bulwark” of the truth is The Church. Jesus says in Matthew 5 that the Church is the light of the world. So obviously Jesus meant for his Church to play a pretty important role too. In fact, it is so wrapped up with Him that scripture calls the Church “His Body.” It’s also called His bride.

Bottom line: If you want to get to know Christ…if you want to be one with Christ, get to know and get in communion with His Church.

Additionally, if we look at the early Christians, they are explicitly and clearly practicing Catholics. They believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the sacrifice of the Mass, Apostolic succession, etc. The same Catholic Church today holds the same beliefs that they did.

A few links you may find helpful:
Some early church stuff
Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth
Why do Catholics Believe things not in the Bible?

Peace be with you.

]]> By: KAY http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-81223 KAY Fri, 30 Dec 2011 03:15:30 +0000 http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=903#comment-81223 Tim, I am reading your response now 2+ years later & love it! Thanks! Tim, I am reading your response now 2+ years later & love it! Thanks!

]]> By: KAY http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/why-should-we-believe-in-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-81221 KAY Fri, 30 Dec 2011 03:09:28 +0000 http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=903#comment-81221 Bill, there are also many devout Catholic Priests who preached against non-catholic christians, who became convinced of the truth in Jesus, and left the Catholic church to follow only Jesus Christ. For example, there is a book available (take some time to google it), called: "Far from Rome Near to God". Bill, there are also many devout Catholic Priests who preached against non-catholic christians, who became convinced of the truth in Jesus, and left the Catholic church to follow only Jesus Christ.

For example, there is a book available (take some time to google it), called: “Far from Rome Near to God”.

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