Also, a clarification to my comment– as I understand, for the child of Christian parents who was validly baptized as an infant, when that child reaches the point of awareness of sin, repentance and faith in Christ must occur, in an *ongoing* sense, if the grace of that baptism is to result in salvation. If am I contradicting the teaching of the Catholic Church (which does not contradict the teaching of the Bible, as the Church compiled the Bible), I hope and trust that someone will correct me.

Baptism is part of salvation, according to the Bible, but it is not the only part. One cannot turn away from faith in Christ and live in ongoing sin and still expect to be with God in Heaven, simply because one was validly baptized as an infant.

The Bible, itself, states that baptism is a *part of* being saved– rather than being merely one of the “fruits” of a person already having been saved, as certain Protestant denominations teach. In Acts 2:38-39, Peter commands adult non-Christians to repent *and* be baptized. He then states that *after* these things things occur (repentance and baptism), the people in question will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

In Acts 2:39, we see hints of the historical fact (documented in writings of the early Church) that the early Christian practice was for the infants of Christian parents to be baptized, making them a part of the Christian community– though faith in Christ must also be exercised, when awareness of the need for it comes. However, baptism is still a part of becoming a Christian. Peter himself states that this is the case.

Again, non-Christian adults are commanded to repent *and* be baptized, after which Peter states, in verse 38, that they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. According the the Bible, baptism is actually a part of becoming a Christian, not simply a sign that one already is a Christian.

If you answered yes to either of these then I beg that you reconsider your response.

Yes as intellectual Catholics it’s all so clear that God has granted us the true path, the real road, the cup and the passion; but as practical Catholics we need to look to our congregations. Seriously. Were you aware that statistically speaking, most abortions per religion are obtained by Protestants at 37.4% but coming in a close second are Catholics at 31.3%? It’s frightening: http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html . What does this say about where our hearts lie?
I love the quote from St. Athanasius. It drives to the heart of the matter. But in no way should it be inferred to be a limiter on whom God has called to follow him. Rather it should make the 80% of “Catholics” that claim to be as such yet think they can believe whatever they want to believe, sit up and take notice. It should make the Church herself seriously reconsider her methods of catechesis. Until these things happen, the Catholic Church can claim no superiority, let alone perfection in a practical sense (intellectual yes but practical never) over our protestant brothers and sisters who, after all are going on blind faith.
The Catholic Church is reformed and re-forming. By the grace of God’s will, may we be made whole again through Jesus Christ our Lord.

PS – Paul’s rebuking Peter takes away none of his authority; moreso, it acknowledges it. How many people rebuke the president every day?

I’m not sure this stream is still active but I would like to comment on the Newton/Einstein analogy.

First Chris, I hope you are still visiting this site. I just found it yesterday. What a gem! Newtonian mechanics is to Einsteinian mechanics the same way Protestant theology is to Catholic theology. Newtonian mechanics is really easy to understand. This is what is taught to high school students. Most Protestant theology is simple too. It is a good entry way into “how to be a Christian.” But Newtonian mechanics is not complete, it is not universal. In certain frames of reference or gravitational fields, it breaks down. Einsteinian mechanics (with Quantum mechanics) defines absolute laws of motion of all things. It is complete.

Just as Relativity is complicated, so is Catholic theology. Both are equally correct in what they attempt to explain. Catholicism is the treasure in the field that we would sell all that we have so that we can buy the field. It is the pearl of great price. Chris, keep asking questions and digging for the Truth.

I do enjoy bullets. :-)

- First, I’m sorry if you took offense to the “straw-man” comment. It wasn’t meant as demeaning at all, just a term to describe something that’s a distraction from the real point. I didn’t mean to put into question your sincerity (which I believe you are) and it certainly doesn’t mean your questions weren’t very good ones (they were great points and questions!).

- Your baptism by your pastor is recognized as completely valid by the Catholic Church (that is, if it was done as a typical SBC or protestant baptism is normally done).

- Questioning is good. And I greatly admire your openness and searching. It’s inspiring to me, personally. We are all on this journey together, pushing forward, shrouded in mystery and all seeking God. I certainly don’t have all the answers, but I know anyone here would be happy to help forge forward with you when you have any other questions.

And I encourage you to continue to learn what the Church truly teaches on a lot of the issues you still question. Even if you don’t fully agree in the end, I guarantee you will come away learning a lot and with a great respect for the Catholic Church. Anytime I’ve had a question and didn’t understand a teaching fully, I just dug in and I can honestly tell you I’ve never, ever been disappointed with what I found. In fact, the answers I found were so inspiring that many of the things I used to question are now my most enthusiastic beliefs. God is good.

Doing it bullet-style:
-I’m being intellectually honest. My questions are sincere. The cop-out and straw-man comments are demeaning – could you cut me a little slack please?
- Yes, I plan to stick around. Despite my first point, this has quickly become a favorite forum of mine.
- “you will disagree with everything I say anyways.” Artie, I refuse to dismiss or refute any rational argument out of hand. I’m not your average drive-by Catholic basher. I’m learning a lot here and I appreciate your discourse.
-Matt, regarding yours and my baptisms: My baptism wasn’t performed by a priest, it was performed by a Pastor. Honest question, doesn’t that make him ineligible to baptize and my baptism ineffectual? Regarding your baptism: Assuming you were baptized as an infant in the Catholic tradition, I’m loathe to admit you are right. I will say this, though: I once heard a lecture by a Presbyterian Pastor on baptism that changed me completely. He said this: churches may debate the purpose and effect of baptism, but to make a Catholic go through a believer’s baptism ’cause the first one didn’t count cuts God out of the equation and is wrong. I’m with him – if you stand by your baptism, so do I – and praise God for it!
-Finally, Matt, you’ve kinda’ got me beat here. I agree with most of what you said. WE NEED THE CHURCH. We need that human authority. Admittedly, there are a lot of things I question about the Catholic church, and I’ll have to work that out. Thanks for helping.