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	<title>Comments on: If Catholics Were Catholic: Shaping the political landscape</title>
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	<description>A Catholic Social Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/if-catholics-were-catholic-pro-abortion-politicians/comment-page-1/#comment-5793</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=159#comment-5793</guid>
		<description>For answeres to your questions on these types of subjects. Please check out my website  cafecrusade.com
:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For answeres to your questions on these types of subjects. Please check out my website  cafecrusade.com<br />
:)</p>
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		<title>By: chelsea s.</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/if-catholics-were-catholic-pro-abortion-politicians/comment-page-1/#comment-3552</link>
		<dc:creator>chelsea s.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=159#comment-3552</guid>
		<description>Flip: 

As Citizens (Catholic or not), we all have obligations to the States: Patriotism, Military service, Payment of Taxes, Voting and Obedience to the Law (unless, however, the law commands an immoral act- then we are obliged to disobey because of our duties to God take precedence over our duties to sate)
 Thus, we have an obligation to vote as an informed citizen; we should vote intelligently. At times, if no candidate presents a moral position, then we would be justified in not voting. We should make our voting decisions on the basis of which candidate is closest to Catholic moral principles, and is most likely to fulfill the basic purpose of government- which, as explained by Thomas Aquinas in his Summa, is to lead man to his ultimate good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flip: </p>
<p>As Citizens (Catholic or not), we all have obligations to the States: Patriotism, Military service, Payment of Taxes, Voting and Obedience to the Law (unless, however, the law commands an immoral act- then we are obliged to disobey because of our duties to God take precedence over our duties to sate)<br />
 Thus, we have an obligation to vote as an informed citizen; we should vote intelligently. At times, if no candidate presents a moral position, then we would be justified in not voting. We should make our voting decisions on the basis of which candidate is closest to Catholic moral principles, and is most likely to fulfill the basic purpose of government- which, as explained by Thomas Aquinas in his Summa, is to lead man to his ultimate good.</p>
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		<title>By: GMT</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/if-catholics-were-catholic-pro-abortion-politicians/comment-page-1/#comment-2391</link>
		<dc:creator>GMT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=159#comment-2391</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this article. How any Catholic can vote for a politician in favor of abortion is beyond me. However, there has been a time when the church told us that it is better to vote than not to vote and if there are no pro-life candidates to chose the one who is &quot;the lesser evil.&quot; Hm, talk about confusion!
You have my full support, and I also want to point out that we need more than ever follow our good Lady of Fatima and pray the rosary daily! I urge all of you to do so, and thank you for helping to strengthen our Catholic unity! God bless you all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this article. How any Catholic can vote for a politician in favor of abortion is beyond me. However, there has been a time when the church told us that it is better to vote than not to vote and if there are no pro-life candidates to chose the one who is &#8220;the lesser evil.&#8221; Hm, talk about confusion!<br />
You have my full support, and I also want to point out that we need more than ever follow our good Lady of Fatima and pray the rosary daily! I urge all of you to do so, and thank you for helping to strengthen our Catholic unity! God bless you all!</p>
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		<title>By: Kimi</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/if-catholics-were-catholic-pro-abortion-politicians/comment-page-1/#comment-1734</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=159#comment-1734</guid>
		<description>I agree that Catholics should act to reduce the need for abortion. Unfortunately, efforts to make abortion illegal have been misguided. If we look to countries around the world, making abortion illegal simply does not correlate with the rate of abortion. Some of the countries with the highest rates of abortion are those where abortion is highly restricted (such as in many Latin American countries) and some of the countries with the lowest abortion rates are those where abortion has few restrictions, such as the Netherlands and other countries of western Europe.

If Catholics were Catholic, we would learn from countries who have been much, much more successful than us in keeping the need for abortion to a minimum. We would learn about  interventions that save more money than they cost (because unplanned pregnancies are more likely to create babies with lifelong health needs and reduce the parents&#039; ability to become economically self-sufficient). We&#039;d learn that treating kids with respect and helping them develop the skills they need to make wise decisions is much more effective than preaching at them and telling them what they should do. Preaching usually leads to rebellion because it treats young people like they are infants, incapable of thinking for themselves. They tend to become irresponsible in their decision making since we don&#039;t help them learn to think.

There&#039;s so much more we could be doing. We can learn a lot from our European sisters and brothers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Catholics should act to reduce the need for abortion. Unfortunately, efforts to make abortion illegal have been misguided. If we look to countries around the world, making abortion illegal simply does not correlate with the rate of abortion. Some of the countries with the highest rates of abortion are those where abortion is highly restricted (such as in many Latin American countries) and some of the countries with the lowest abortion rates are those where abortion has few restrictions, such as the Netherlands and other countries of western Europe.</p>
<p>If Catholics were Catholic, we would learn from countries who have been much, much more successful than us in keeping the need for abortion to a minimum. We would learn about  interventions that save more money than they cost (because unplanned pregnancies are more likely to create babies with lifelong health needs and reduce the parents&#8217; ability to become economically self-sufficient). We&#8217;d learn that treating kids with respect and helping them develop the skills they need to make wise decisions is much more effective than preaching at them and telling them what they should do. Preaching usually leads to rebellion because it treats young people like they are infants, incapable of thinking for themselves. They tend to become irresponsible in their decision making since we don&#8217;t help them learn to think.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s so much more we could be doing. We can learn a lot from our European sisters and brothers.</p>
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		<title>By: Kimi</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/if-catholics-were-catholic-pro-abortion-politicians/comment-page-1/#comment-1733</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=159#comment-1733</guid>
		<description>&quot; But how can we truly claim to love human life in any of its forms if we do not protect human life in its smallest, most defenseless and innocent form?&quot;

Protecting the smallest and most defenseless is not a black and white issue. That is why we need to use faith and reason to make the most life-affirming decisions. By menstruating this month, I flushed an ova down the toilet. To protect my human ova, should I get pregnant at every chance I get? Or at some point, does my ability to feed and protect my living, breathing, talking children outweigh the need to protect quantity of human life?

If I am living at the end of my rope struggling to stop myself from becoming abusive toward my children, or if I know that another pregnancy will cause my husband to become increasingly violent in a life-threatening way toward us all, is it really that clear that I should put my children&#039;s lives in danger in order to protect a zygote? If I do what it takes to protect those children rather than increase the stress that has accelerated the level of violence in my home? When does generating life destined to live in degrading abusive environments of human trafficking somehow become more moral than doing my best to create a world in which I have the resources to love, honor, and protect my existing children? And how on earth can any human believe that he or she can take God&#039;s place and judge others on these issues?

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; But how can we truly claim to love human life in any of its forms if we do not protect human life in its smallest, most defenseless and innocent form?&#8221;</p>
<p>Protecting the smallest and most defenseless is not a black and white issue. That is why we need to use faith and reason to make the most life-affirming decisions. By menstruating this month, I flushed an ova down the toilet. To protect my human ova, should I get pregnant at every chance I get? Or at some point, does my ability to feed and protect my living, breathing, talking children outweigh the need to protect quantity of human life?</p>
<p>If I am living at the end of my rope struggling to stop myself from becoming abusive toward my children, or if I know that another pregnancy will cause my husband to become increasingly violent in a life-threatening way toward us all, is it really that clear that I should put my children&#8217;s lives in danger in order to protect a zygote? If I do what it takes to protect those children rather than increase the stress that has accelerated the level of violence in my home? When does generating life destined to live in degrading abusive environments of human trafficking somehow become more moral than doing my best to create a world in which I have the resources to love, honor, and protect my existing children? And how on earth can any human believe that he or she can take God&#8217;s place and judge others on these issues?</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: Dudley Sharp</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/if-catholics-were-catholic-pro-abortion-politicians/comment-page-1/#comment-800</link>
		<dc:creator>Dudley Sharp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 01:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=159#comment-800</guid>
		<description>Archbishop Chaput&#039;s major death penalty errors
Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters, contact info below
 
Archbishop Chaput relies on the claims of anti death penalty folks when discussing the secular issues. This is a disservice to his flock, as well as to the truth.
 
In addition, the fact that innocents are more at risk without the death penalty is just the  beginning of Pope John Paul II&#039;s death penalty errors within &quot;Evangelium Vitae&quot;, which also suffers from biblical, theological and traditional death penalty errors that were the basis for the Catechism amendments.

One good example is  Archbishop Chaput&#039;s essay
 
http://www.archden.org/dcr/news.php?e=120&amp;s=2&amp;a=2774
 
All of the facts he uses are either false or unproven anti death penalty claims.
 
He must do better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Archbishop Chaput&#8217;s major death penalty errors<br />
Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters, contact info below</p>
<p>Archbishop Chaput relies on the claims of anti death penalty folks when discussing the secular issues. This is a disservice to his flock, as well as to the truth.</p>
<p>In addition, the fact that innocents are more at risk without the death penalty is just the  beginning of Pope John Paul II&#8217;s death penalty errors within &#8220;Evangelium Vitae&#8221;, which also suffers from biblical, theological and traditional death penalty errors that were the basis for the Catechism amendments.</p>
<p>One good example is  Archbishop Chaput&#8217;s essay</p>
<p><a href="http://www.archden.org/dcr/news.php?e=120&#038;s=2&#038;a=2774" rel="nofollow">http://www.archden.org/dcr/news.php?e=120&#038;s=2&#038;a=2774</a></p>
<p>All of the facts he uses are either false or unproven anti death penalty claims.</p>
<p>He must do better.</p>
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		<title>By: formerred</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/if-catholics-were-catholic-pro-abortion-politicians/comment-page-1/#comment-708</link>
		<dc:creator>formerred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 03:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=159#comment-708</guid>
		<description>At a Catholic Church I attended last Sunday, there was a very good presence of pro-life information, and next week, supposedly at all Catholic Church&#039;s nationwide, postcards asking legislatures to vote pro-life will be passed out. I think there are good signs out there, but we need to work and pray that that effort keeps up.
We also have to watch for the promotion of other liberal agendas. Not so much that we should deny fellow Catholics being able to hold liberal positions on some issues, but to speak up and let them know it&#039;s not a Catholic position, but only their own personal one.
When liberal Catholics talk of other issues besides abortion, I say sure there are other reasons to vote Republican, but the life issue is the most important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At a Catholic Church I attended last Sunday, there was a very good presence of pro-life information, and next week, supposedly at all Catholic Church&#8217;s nationwide, postcards asking legislatures to vote pro-life will be passed out. I think there are good signs out there, but we need to work and pray that that effort keeps up.<br />
We also have to watch for the promotion of other liberal agendas. Not so much that we should deny fellow Catholics being able to hold liberal positions on some issues, but to speak up and let them know it&#8217;s not a Catholic position, but only their own personal one.<br />
When liberal Catholics talk of other issues besides abortion, I say sure there are other reasons to vote Republican, but the life issue is the most important.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/if-catholics-were-catholic-pro-abortion-politicians/comment-page-1/#comment-642</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=159#comment-642</guid>
		<description>The world is God&#039;s kingdom; not our democracy, when it comes to morality.  We can elect and vote all we want, but it is wrong to vote for what&#039;s evil in the eyes of God.  Those who do evil that is said doesn&#039;t hurt anyone do other things or say other things that make others think wrongly.  You can&#039;t police every house, nor should violators be stoned, but there should be very uncomfortable punishments for those caught by authorities blaspheming, contracepting, etc..  If executions are for unrepentant threats to society, then so should exile be for those violating moral; laws on purpose.  

It wouldn&#039;t be perfect, but it would be better than letting all go to pot, so as not to possibly become McCarthyist.  Unfortunately, the Catholic Church is the only one that can do it, if anyone, and the Church ordained many wolves in shepherd&#039;s clothing.  20 years ago, the last Pope could have retired these bishops and bishops from their posts and had put in real shepherds from reputable (for a good reason) seminaries, but didn&#039;t, and so here we are.  We have all these apostolates and counter-actors and lazy leaders at the same time.  I can understand leaders burning out, but that&#039;s when, as in sports, you make a substitution.  

The recent pope has rattled the cage, but he needs to quit traveling and shake off the wolves and dead branches from their jurisdiction as we need shepherds.  
We need old disciplines restored, decent architecture, Catholic music only Anglicans seem to sing, etc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The world is God&#8217;s kingdom; not our democracy, when it comes to morality.  We can elect and vote all we want, but it is wrong to vote for what&#8217;s evil in the eyes of God.  Those who do evil that is said doesn&#8217;t hurt anyone do other things or say other things that make others think wrongly.  You can&#8217;t police every house, nor should violators be stoned, but there should be very uncomfortable punishments for those caught by authorities blaspheming, contracepting, etc..  If executions are for unrepentant threats to society, then so should exile be for those violating moral; laws on purpose.  </p>
<p>It wouldn&#8217;t be perfect, but it would be better than letting all go to pot, so as not to possibly become McCarthyist.  Unfortunately, the Catholic Church is the only one that can do it, if anyone, and the Church ordained many wolves in shepherd&#8217;s clothing.  20 years ago, the last Pope could have retired these bishops and bishops from their posts and had put in real shepherds from reputable (for a good reason) seminaries, but didn&#8217;t, and so here we are.  We have all these apostolates and counter-actors and lazy leaders at the same time.  I can understand leaders burning out, but that&#8217;s when, as in sports, you make a substitution.  </p>
<p>The recent pope has rattled the cage, but he needs to quit traveling and shake off the wolves and dead branches from their jurisdiction as we need shepherds.<br />
We need old disciplines restored, decent architecture, Catholic music only Anglicans seem to sing, etc</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/if-catholics-were-catholic-pro-abortion-politicians/comment-page-1/#comment-636</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=159#comment-636</guid>
		<description>I must not be a good Catholic, nor a good Christian for that matter. As a US citizen, I feel I&#039;m free to manage MY life according to the tenants of my faith, but I&#039;m not free to manage YOUR life by the tenants of my faith. I really doubt I&#039;m anymore morally ambiguous than anyone else on the planet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must not be a good Catholic, nor a good Christian for that matter. As a US citizen, I feel I&#8217;m free to manage MY life according to the tenants of my faith, but I&#8217;m not free to manage YOUR life by the tenants of my faith. I really doubt I&#8217;m anymore morally ambiguous than anyone else on the planet.</p>
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		<title>By: Dee Richert</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/if-catholics-were-catholic-pro-abortion-politicians/comment-page-1/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>Dee Richert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=159#comment-507</guid>
		<description>I do not agree that Vatican II caused the current heresy of modernism.  (Vatican II made the liturgy more accessible to people; it did not give permission for &#039;anything goes&#039;.)  
The individual choices of individual Catholics, religious and laity alike, are the reason some members of the faith have embraced a truly non-Catholic stance on many issues.  However, there are still real Catholics who have live as such, have no problem with the doctrine of the Church, involve themselves in church ministry, teach catechism, serve the needs of the community and, by example, live the faith.
The priests don&#039;t &quot;own&quot; the parishes; technically, the laity do, although I don&#039;t agree with the word &#039;own&#039;.  The priests are the servants/shepherds of the people.  They have only as much &#039;power&#039; as they are allowed.  Catholics are free to seek spiritual guidance elsewhere and call their priests/bishops on their departure from Truth.
If the laity sits back and accepts any priest&#039;s heretical behavior or example, than it&#039;s their own fault.  Waiting for the bad influences to &quot;die out&quot; is just cowardly.  There is power in the Truth and real Catholics are not afraid to express it, share it, live it, and demand their spiritual leaders do so as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not agree that Vatican II caused the current heresy of modernism.  (Vatican II made the liturgy more accessible to people; it did not give permission for &#8216;anything goes&#8217;.)<br />
The individual choices of individual Catholics, religious and laity alike, are the reason some members of the faith have embraced a truly non-Catholic stance on many issues.  However, there are still real Catholics who have live as such, have no problem with the doctrine of the Church, involve themselves in church ministry, teach catechism, serve the needs of the community and, by example, live the faith.<br />
The priests don&#8217;t &#8220;own&#8221; the parishes; technically, the laity do, although I don&#8217;t agree with the word &#8216;own&#8217;.  The priests are the servants/shepherds of the people.  They have only as much &#8216;power&#8217; as they are allowed.  Catholics are free to seek spiritual guidance elsewhere and call their priests/bishops on their departure from Truth.<br />
If the laity sits back and accepts any priest&#8217;s heretical behavior or example, than it&#8217;s their own fault.  Waiting for the bad influences to &#8220;die out&#8221; is just cowardly.  There is power in the Truth and real Catholics are not afraid to express it, share it, live it, and demand their spiritual leaders do so as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Tina Ries</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/if-catholics-were-catholic-pro-abortion-politicians/comment-page-1/#comment-503</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina Ries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 05:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=159#comment-503</guid>
		<description>Hi Matthew,

I read &quot;Render Unto Caesar&quot; before the election and wanted to tell everyone I knew about it.  Archbishop Chaput, whom I&#039;m very proud to have as my Archbishop here in Denver, is an amazing teacher. I&#039;ve been fortunate also to hear his homilies at the Cathedral in Denver which is his parish many times.

One of the many things that stuck with me from his book is how Catholics like wearing the Catholic BRAND, but they don&#039;t like to follow what Catholicism teaches.  The BRAND is what appeals to so many.

My kids attend a Catholic School here in Denver. I was absolutely astounded at how overwhelmingly in support the parent-body was of Obama---Obama stickers on all the cars in the parking lot.  I was one of maybe 2 or 3 cars in the school parking lot that dared to have a McCain sticker on their car.  They did a mock election in the school and again, Obama won.   It&#039;s like these people have thrown their faith to the wind becasue they&#039;re looking for this new savior to redeem them.  Good luck with that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Matthew,</p>
<p>I read &#8220;Render Unto Caesar&#8221; before the election and wanted to tell everyone I knew about it.  Archbishop Chaput, whom I&#8217;m very proud to have as my Archbishop here in Denver, is an amazing teacher. I&#8217;ve been fortunate also to hear his homilies at the Cathedral in Denver which is his parish many times.</p>
<p>One of the many things that stuck with me from his book is how Catholics like wearing the Catholic BRAND, but they don&#8217;t like to follow what Catholicism teaches.  The BRAND is what appeals to so many.</p>
<p>My kids attend a Catholic School here in Denver. I was absolutely astounded at how overwhelmingly in support the parent-body was of Obama&#8212;Obama stickers on all the cars in the parking lot.  I was one of maybe 2 or 3 cars in the school parking lot that dared to have a McCain sticker on their car.  They did a mock election in the school and again, Obama won.   It&#8217;s like these people have thrown their faith to the wind becasue they&#8217;re looking for this new savior to redeem them.  Good luck with that.</p>
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