A clear question is; Do we choose our beliefs or do they choose us. I am called, and seeking the truth, a closer relationship with our Lord Jesus in my heart. His actions are the same then now and always.

A clear valid of faith in God, is the power in life itself. Our choice to raise the discussion up to our actions to save life, all life; to include the unborn is a measure of our certainty.

A clear valid is also doubt in the faith in God; Thomas’ example, and our Lord’s response. Peace be with you all, and my thanks for lifting this discussion above my singular point of view. I am called to love another as myself. Your examples here are powerful, you may take heart, dear friends.

Jim

Glad you find it interesting here! The challenge is exhilirating.

That article sounds fascinating. I have heard a lot of anecdotal stuff about evangelicals coming to the Catholic church. But I’ve heard it from this perspective – that those who are migrating to my faith are doing so because they feel their church to be slipping and sliding on Truth. I’ll try to find the article your referenced online. It’s true that the Catholic church opposed the Iraq war, that we’re on the forefront of caring for the poor around the world and have been for centuries…basically, we’re willing to take a lot of very unpopular positions and stand firm, mostly. And I’m proud of that.

The Catholic church is always happy to welcome our brothers and sisters home.

Oh, and I meant to say PANTHEON not pantheism – LIKE who cares, but anyhoo: “Today’s minority worldview that you mentioned is actually a *majority* of people who support a kind of modern PANTHEON: each person his own god – creating his or her own version of truth, and worshipping at his own alter.

Such a world view has no center but the human ego, which is why it’s so popular.”

@3 graces: “It must be kind of fun being the provacateur of the group!”
Well, only as long as there is thought-provoking discussion going on. I have to say that this one gave a number of very good pointers for my own understanding of religion – even though I don’t believe.

I read a very interesting article in the Christian Science Monitor called “The coming evangelical collapse” written by Michael Spencer, who is a Christian and very active in his community.

This might be interesting because one of his statements is that Catholicism will gain from the evangelical (Protestant) collapse:

“Two of the beneficiaries will be the Roman Catholic and Orthodox communions. Evangelicals have been entering these churches in recent decades and that trend will continue, with more efforts aimed at the “conversion” of Evangelicals to the Catholic and Orthodox traditions.”

And some of his points struck home with me, in particular:

“Evangelicals have identified their movement with the culture war and with political conservatism. This will prove to be a very costly mistake. Evangelicals will increasingly be seen as a threat to cultural progress. Public leaders will consider us bad for America, bad for education, bad for children, and bad for society.”

I was positively surprised by this very candid assessment and the possible future of faith in the world – which isn’t at all bad.

It must be kind of fun being the provacateur of the group! :)

Constantly questioning what you believe is part of being a Catholic because it’s a part of being human. Many of the greatest among the Catholic faith have had deep doubts – but also deep and unimaginably beautiful consolations. Them’s what we call, the goodies.

One must ultimately make the leap of faith on one’s own to the fact that there is Truth with a capital “T,” and that truth is a person – Jesus Christ – not an arbitrary and ever changing psychological trope.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is based around the 10 commandments and elucidates all the different meanings of each commandment beautifully and at lenght. Also – check out Fr. Grochel’s CD set on the 10 commandments. http://www.catholiccompany.com/catholic-gifts/8001336/Ten-Commandments-CDs/

Willful harm of the environment is a mortal sin in the Catholic Church.

Today’s minority worldview that you mentioned is actually a *majority* of people who support a kind of modern Pantheism: each person his own god – creating his or her own version of truth, and worshipping at his own alter.

Such a world view has no center but the human ego, which is why it’s so popular.

Let’s shake hands on that! :)

Well, I guess any debate is then useless. It does not seem that there *can* be any argument that will make you change your mind or accept my views as equally valid. This is the problem I have with many (but not all) religious people – they think they know the absolute truth. And in the end it always boils down to this: “I must be right, so you must be wrong”.

In a way I envy your strong conviction, on the other hand I am happy that I remain a skeptic and constantly question my beliefs. It costs a lot of energy and it doesn’t make me happier or a better person, but for me it seems the only viable stance is: “We do not know for certain”.

@Jill: I am not admonishing you for your beliefs. I admonish you for trying to put your personal beliefs into law and forcing them on others. I think secularism is the natural state – your flavor of religious lifestyle is your choice. When you are born you are not religious, it all depends on where you live and what your parents believe. I always found it interesting how a deity’s popularity and influence seems to end at a country’s borders…

This is a very interesting group to discuss with, although I feel like some of my stronger arguments are ignored and the weaker ones get dismembered, hehe.

I find it quite hypocritical to demonize a “minority of people” that has a different world view. Christianity at some point was in the same spot. You should at least have respect for their beliefs which are just as valid and thought out as yours.

And living by the ten commandments would make the world a better place? What moral value do the first four commandments have? I could think of more important issues to put there than that? What about rape? Child abuse? Slavery? Ecological crimes?

I would rather go with Jainisms creed:
Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being.

Now there is a commandment to live by…

I feel your pain. But take courage. Good people everywhere are banding together against the common enemy, who is becoming bolder and bolder. The bolder the enemy becomes, the more people will start to recognize that they must fight against that enemy. The enemy can’t help but show his colors eventually. People can only be fooled by good looks, wealth and smooth words for so long. Catholics are starting to wake up.

Be not afraid.

Matthew, thanks for your comments about why it’s necessary to have the authority of the Church.