Did Jesus Drink Alcohol?

156 comments
Jesus and Wine

For the first 1800-1900 years of Christianity, drinking alcohol in moderation was one more way to enjoy God’s gifts. But a movement in the social politic of America in the early 1900’s suddenly changed some protestant denominations stance on alcohol consumption.

These groups began teaching that drinking alcohol was always or almost always a sin. This was a huge change from historical Christianity.

As a result of this new teaching, we had a lot of people twisting scripture to try and support this idea that Jesus didn’t drink alcohol and that the word “wine” in scripture is actually referring to grape juice.

But this is not supported by scripture, history, or logic.

The Jews, prior to Jesus’ birth, had considered “wine” to be fermented (alcoholic) grape juice. And it was certainly a part of many activities, including weddings, and it was definitely used in the passover celebration.

When Jesus came along there is no indication that He changed or condemned any of these existing practices. In fact, he seems to have encouraged them. His first miracle was turning water into wine at the wedding feast at Cana (John 2:1-11). And again, the wine that these Jews would have been drinking was fermented, alcoholic wine – not grape juice. And then of course Jesus used wine when he celebrated passover with his apostles and instituted the Eucharist – wine being the object of consecration. Jesus actually humbles himself, taking on the form of wine, so that we can consume Him.

Another point to remember is that back then people had no way of preserving juice. They had no preservatives or other modern processes to easily keep grape juice from fermenting. So once they harvested the grapes for the year and stored the juice in skins, the fermentation process naturally began. If you put juice in a container and leave it alone for a few months what do you get? Fermented, alcoholic wine. That’s what you get.

The passover feast occurred 6-7 months after the grape harvest. By then the grape juice was surely a nice shiraz, or a pinot (ok…I’m not sure how nice it was). So it would have been impossible to not have alcoholic wine for the passover and really for any occasion during the large part of any year.

And even in scripture the apostles themselves are mistakenly accused of being drunk on wine (Acts 2:13-15). First, this seems to infer that it’s not unreasonable to think the apostles may have been drinking alcoholic wine. And second, Peter responds to the accusers, not by saying that they didn’t drink alcohol or that it was bad. He responds by saying basically, “hey, we’re not drunk, it’s too early to be drinking wine.” The implication is obviously that the apostles did drink alcoholic wine, it was just too early in the day to have done so – and they certainly weren’t drunk.

And the constant teaching of the Church is consistent with all of this. Drinking wine can be a good and holy thing.

All that being said, the Church has also always taught that abuse of alcohol or anything else to the point of impairing your judgment is a serious sin. Just as some groups have taken the use of alcohol to an extreme by prohibiting it, it is just as incorrect and even more dangerous to take it to the other extreme of abusing it.

Many Catholics take the Church’s acceptance of the use of alcohol as a license to get drunk. This couldn’t be further from the truth and is a sin of grave matter. I’ve heard many a Catholic respond to negative inferences of getting drunk by saying, “Oh, I’m Catholic…so it’s cool.”

No, it’s not cool. And it’s not Catholic.

It’s another one of those things where a little common sense goes a long way. And if you want to know the absolute best way to drink…click here.

[photo credit]

156 comments Add comment

Eric W January 13, 2009 at 6:57 pm

Actually, the rejection of alcohol goes at least as far back as the non-conformist movements of the 17th century, including the Quakers and Puritans.

Matthew Catalano January 13, 2009 at 6:59 pm

Well, you can blame this one on the Methodists and the other “holiness” movements from the late 1800s. Of course, refrigeration wasn’t invented until this time so even if churches took a stand on alcohol use (which they didn’t) they wouldn’t have been able to do anything about it.

Fortunately, within my own confessional Reformed tradition, the use of wine in communion is becoming more and more frequent as the moralism of the Wesleyan’s and Southern Baptists is being seen for what it is.

Joe Henzler January 13, 2009 at 8:28 pm

As Chesterton says, “We should thank God for beer and burgundy by not drinking too much of them.”

Cameron Fairlie January 13, 2009 at 8:37 pm

Intriguing read. I was an evangelical for a number of years before becoming a Catholic, and from experience, have noted that many evangelicals who indulge in an occational alcoholic beverage, do so with a kind of remorse. In other words, they drink with guilt. On the other hand, there are Catholics who say “hey they thought the 12 on Pentecost were drunk, so let’s drink up” as an excuse to drink beyond moderation. Drinking wine is good, but getting wasted and acting like a jerk isn’t. Good read.

Alexander Paul January 13, 2009 at 9:44 pm

A well explained article. Yes, common sense goes a long way. I wish the youth here in the UK can be tought this way and not overdo it every weekend. Unfortunately the lack of right teaching with lack
of going to church let people not understand the right meaning of what alcohol is all about. I enjoyed your insight and oppinion here.

Andy January 13, 2009 at 9:57 pm

There are many “fruits of the earth” that God has created. We should be thankful for them and use them for enriching our lives. Alcohol takes the edge off of a hard days work, just as caffeine can get us off to a nice start. I view these things as just a few of the many gifts God has given us. Too much of anything can constitute a problem for us physically or otherwise. How we use God’s gifts is just another “choice” we have to make. Obviously, bad behavior will always be bad behavior. I could just as easily be impatient, crabby, hateful, or mean from NOT partaking in these “fruits of the earth” just as much as if I had. It’s all about how we choose to let it affect our behavior. We should always respect our body, and too much of anything can be sinful in that it can affect the greatest gift of all, our physical body and mind. Keep it in perspective and enjoy the many gifts of the earth that God has given us !

L January 14, 2009 at 9:28 am

“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” – Benjamin Franklin

:)

Catholic debating pro-life April 22, 2010 at 7:26 pm

Actually, that’s a an altered, shortened, and overall rather distorted quote. The actual quote, which is actually a pretty good theological point, is that when people question why water is no longer turned into wine like Jesus did at Cana, he points out that God does indeed send down water, which is in turn “drunk” by the plants, like grapes. The grapes are then turned into wine, which is proof that God loves us and wants to see us happy.

Thomas January 14, 2009 at 11:55 am

so its a mortal sin to get drunk?

L January 14, 2009 at 1:34 pm

Thomas,

This blog has an interesting perspective on if drunkenness is a mortal sin or not: http://marysaggies.blogspot.com/2006/12/is-getting-drunk-mortal-sin.html

adiutricem January 14, 2009 at 6:26 pm

So the Evangelicals believe that for Jesus’ first miracle, he turned water into grape juice? He would have better off with a “pick any card…” trick. :)

Thomas January 17, 2009 at 4:07 am

Did you know that in the Bible wine symbolizes joy, celebration. No feast could be celebrated without it. Just goes to show how wrong the Protestant principle of free examination of the Bible is, that anyone can interpet the Bible. Jesus choose to remain with us in the Eucharist in the form of bread and wine. Bread was the daily food in the Meditaranean of the time, while wine symbolized feasting.

Michelle February 23, 2009 at 8:57 pm

I was raised Protestant and became a Catholic just a few years ago. I love this examination and explanation of drinking as it would be viewed from a Biblical perspective from Christ’s own life and time. I find it interesting also that he would choose to come to earth during a time when this would be recorded as normal. At other times, it would not have been. I think this clears up a lot of left over protestant wonderings and will be the basis of future conversations with believers who feel as though I have backslidden because of my choice to drink from time to time. Thank you.

George Caleb Oguta March 6, 2009 at 6:13 am

Iam supporting your teachings
They are true
Ineed more teachings for the passover
George
+254710660301

Kim June 13, 2009 at 6:20 pm

Omg … As I Have Learned Alcohol is dangerous for health and causes death and other bad things and as far as i thing…Apostles would have never taugth us wrong things.. plz do reply..

Dave October 8, 2009 at 5:54 pm

Kim,
Alcohol in moderation is healthy:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024
“Moderate alcohol consumption may provide some health benefits. It may:
* Reduce your risk of developing heart disease, peripheral vascular disease and intermittent claudication
* Reduce your risk of dying of a heart attack
* Possibly reduce your risk of strokes, particularly ischemic strokes
* Lower your risk of gallstones
* Possibly reduce your risk of diabetes”

Solomon I.E July 12, 2011 at 6:24 pm

Drinking wine is good but getting drunk is evil.then why can’t we abstaine ourself from all apearance of evil? As the bible comanded

Dave July 13, 2011 at 12:27 am

Evil is not something unto itself, but good corrupted. For example, making love to your wife is good, but sex with a whore is evil. Eating a reasonable dinner is good, but stuffing yourself to the max is gluttony. In the same way, wine in moderation is good, but drunkenness is evil.

Carla D January 8, 2013 at 9:30 pm

Then if getting drunk is evil, which I agree according to scripture, then why would Jesus make more of intoxicating wine at the wedding when everybody had already been filled. Would this not be a drunken party? If so, then Jesus would have sinned and we know He had no sin.

gntlmnr January 10, 2013 at 12:40 am

Carla D, I don’t think we should read in the scripture what is not written in it. When there are hard facts, there is no point in projecting our thoughts.

1) Why did Jesus turn water into wine? We really cannot answer this question.
2) Did Jesus turn water into wine? Yes he did.

It is just as simple as that. No more no less.

Angela April 14, 2013 at 4:37 pm

Also, remember a wedding feast lasted for seven days during this time. So I don’t believe that we are necessarily looking at a drunken frenzy.

Artie June 14, 2009 at 3:40 pm

Kim can you elaborate on your position a little more?

I am confused at what point you are trying to make in your previous post.

St. Bellarmine's Blog July 12, 2009 at 9:33 am

Here is what the good St. Bellarmine said about getting drunk.

Saint Robert Bellarmine Calling Drunkards To Repentance!

Samuel Ferraro September 19, 2009 at 10:39 am

Drunkenness where a person says and does things that he or she would normally not is in most circumstances a mortal sin, and for some people, this can result from one or two drinks, so this is really a highly individual matter.

Roseanne Sullivan December 3, 2009 at 11:26 pm

I was a member of an Evangelical Free Church for a time after I regained my faith in Christ, but before I returned to the Catholic Church, and I remember the pastor saying with a straight face that the word for wine actually meant raisin paste.

My Methodist minister brother in law taught at a Methodist college and would go out of town to buy wine so the locals wouldn’t catch him in the act.

Nick May 10, 2010 at 7:39 pm

I feel it is important to note that there were as many as 4 ways to preserve grape juice during the time of Jesus. These way were: Fumigation, filtration, sublimation, and boiling. Before anyone says I’m incorrect, I encourage you to do some research first. If I must, I will return with a rebuttal to any objections to this fact.

RayD May 29, 2012 at 4:47 am

We can debate about whether grape juice could have been preserved in any way at the time of Jesus for as long as we want, but if we refer to the Bible, we can find much easier answers.

From John 2:1-11
Jesus saith unto them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now [what is in the waterpots], and bear [bring it] unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine and when men have well “D R U N K”, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

I hope the “D R U N K” word clarifies the issue.

Joseph January 3, 2013 at 11:56 pm

Sublimation is the process in which a solid turns into a gas without passing through the liquid phase, I’m fairly certain we can’t do that with wine now-a-days, and they definitely couldn’t do it 2000 years ago

Nick May 10, 2010 at 7:54 pm

As to adiutricem’s comment, It is not impossible that Jesus turned the water to grape juice. We find in John 5:19 Jesus saying,”Then answered Jesus and said unto them,” Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.” We find in nature the grape on the vine; if the skin of the grape is not perforated, the grape will simply shrivel up and turn into a raisin. It requires the external squashing of the grape to obtain the fresh juice which then, over time, will attract yeast cells, whose purpose is to decompose the grape, and eventually ferment. It is neither silly nor completely unlikely that Jesus turned water into grape juice. If further inquiry should be compiled in relation to this comment, I will be happy to share more information about this subject.

RayD May 29, 2012 at 5:32 am

I don’t believe that anybody is questioning the ability of Jesus Christ to do anything he wants, but why make things more complicated than they are. Wine is wine and grape juice is grape juice.

Matthew Warner June 8, 2010 at 3:15 pm

Nick, if you can provide links to documentation on the 4 ways to preserve grape juice, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks!

And of course Jesus could have turned water into grape juice…he can do what he likes. But scripture says it was wine…not grape juice. And everywhere else it refers to it, in the context and use of the time, it is understood to be alcoholic wine – not un-fermented grape juice. There are plenty of reasons it is very implausible that Jesus did not drink alcoholic wine.

Nick October 31, 2010 at 2:50 pm

Hey Matthew! Sorry about not answering your question sooner. I found the 4 ways to preserve wine in a book called, “Booze, Bucks, Bamboozle, and You”. Oh, I do want to make it known that I do not believe as I believed on May 10th 2010. I was working on discovering the truth of the matter regarding alcohol, and I have found it! Also, for arguments sake, I would like to point out that the wine used in Canan was known as the morally good wine (Kalos) not simply good (gathos). And I may have those 2 Greek words switched, not sure. It has been about 6 months since I have done any research regarding alcohol.

sam July 15, 2010 at 7:12 am

Nick said: “It requires the external squashing of the grape to obtain the fresh juice which then, over time, will attract yeast cells, whose purpose is to decompose the grape, and eventually ferment.”

Yeasts are naturally present on the grapes, there is no need to attract them(Of course, in modern time we are able to separate strains and use the ones that produce the most desired characteristics.) Fermentation is a type of decomposition and so when you say “and eventually ferment” it has already been fermenting. If the grape were already decomposed by other microorganisms, such as bacteria, then there would be no sugars left for the yeasts to ferment.

I would also like to see some links on the methods of preservation that you offered. I do not believe boiling would be a very good method. It would kill any microorganisms already present, but there are still sugars which would then, in this case, attract yeasts or bacteria unless it were sealed in a sanitized, air-tight container. I would also love to learn a method of filtration that could have been in practice at that time that could help me remove yeasts and bacteria from juice.

Kevin July 20, 2010 at 4:45 am

A bunch of fisherman sitting around and drinking “grape juice” 2,000 years ago? Yeah, right.

Matthew Warner July 20, 2010 at 10:08 am

Kevin – that is perhaps the most convincing point of all!

Otto September 28, 2010 at 1:53 am

I strongly agree with Kevin!

Not only is it very likely that hard and tough fisherman would have tasted and enjoyed alcohol, think about the whole warrior system of a warlike nation. It is inconceivable that upon returning from wars with the Philistines and everybody else (everyone always hated the Jews), they would refresh themselves with a nice cup of unfermented grape juice.

I asked a couple of devout Jewish friends whether their culture always had used alcoholic beverages as part of their religious observances. They invariably look at me as if I were joking. At no time did the Jewish tradition abstain from alcohol.

Jesus Christ was a good Jew.

He had no option but to drink alcoholic wine.

Otto September 28, 2010 at 2:51 am

Nick said:
“4 ways to preserve grape juice during the time of Jesus. These way were: Fumigation, filtration, sublimation, and boiling.”

I have done some research, but only a few hours. I am quite puzzled by these assertions.

1. Fumigation: Please enlighten us as to any ancient fumigation techniques. And I cannot see how that has to do with preserving grape juice, is it to kill the yeast that is on every grape skin?

2. Filtration: what are you filtering? How fine does this have to be? What happens to the yeast?

3. Sublimation: I did find out about this. It is basically the terminology for distillation. But I do not think it is possible to have non-alcoholic brandy.

4. Boiling: Presumably this means pasteurising. This would have some benefit, but it is unlikely that ancient storage systems would have prevented eventual fermentation.

Finally, I really want to know: why bother with such a complicated process? It is extremely unlikely that Jews did not drink alcohol. (Please refer to my previous post.)

Wine is one of God’s most miraculous creations, probably the most unlikely food or drink. It has almost unbelievable flavour complexity, hundreds of identified and distinct flavours. By actually putting the most appropriate variety of yeast on the outside of the grapeskin is genius, meaning that the two will only mix when they are crushed. Saying that this wonderful substance is sinful is seriously disrespecting God’s creation.

Joseph January 4, 2013 at 12:07 am

God made the wonderful creation of 9 year old girls, but there’s is plenty of ways you could make that go wrong. So while the destination of your lyrical journey may or may not be respectable, the last sentence of your monologue has no merit, compared to the first sentence of mine, thus making yours very non competitive, given the competition.

Dwight January 10, 2013 at 10:26 am

All of the methods to stop wine from fermenting are suspect and were not typically used for this purpose. Fumigation was used by the ancients, but not to stay fermentation, but rather for purification of an area and raw sulphur was added directly to wine and then lit for effect. Boiling was done, but not to wine, but to grape juice or fresh must and usually this was added to wine to make it sweeter. Filtration was done to wine to remove particulates, but not to stop fermenation in grape juice.
It is easy to get and spread false info, but we rarely fact check.

Dave September 28, 2010 at 1:32 pm

It’s so sad that we even have to debate this. It was settled long ago in Sirach, ch. 31 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/sir031.htm). If only Luther hadn’t thrown it out…

32 Wine taken with sobriety is equal life to men: if you drink it moderately, you shall be sober.
33 What is his life, who is diminished with wine?
34 What takes away life? Death.
35 Wine was created from the beginning to make men joyful, and not to make them drunk.
36 Wine drunken with moderation is the joy of the soul and the heart.
37 Sober drinking is health to soul and body.

King October 9, 2010 at 4:39 pm

don’t be misled. The Bible says do not be drunk with wine but be filled with the spirit. This does not mean that you should not drink. It means drink but do not get drunk. I will provide scriptural reference if anyone needs one.

sheno October 19, 2010 at 1:37 am

Did Jesus drink alcoholic wine? It is assumed by a great many that He did. Let’s examine this for a moment. Do you know how much wine Jesus made during His first miracle at the wedding feast of Cana? He made 6 firkins, or about 150 gallons. Now, of course, the New International Version (NIV), which never changes anything of significance (yea, right), says by implication that Jesus did this “after the GUESTS had too much to drink”. You do understand that Jesus was a GUEST don’t you??? So, let me understand this correctly, Jesus was at a party where the guests were drinking to excess, Jesus was one of the guests, and He supplied a few extra kegs to liven things up a bit after they had already drank to excess. Is that your Jesus?

sheno October 19, 2010 at 1:41 am

The King James Bible (KJB) rendering which states they had “well drunken” (had plenty to drink) is the correct one. The New American Standard Version and other literal modern versions agree with the KJB here, leaving the NIV alone in its radically liberal paraphrase. Even if you take the rendering in the KJB, which I do, you have to conclude the guests had drank their fill of wine. If this wine was alcoholic then it is likely that they would not be ready for another 150 gallons of alcoholic wine. Think about it. How many glass of wine would this be? If you figure 4 ounces to a glass, 128 ounces to a gallon, you get 32 glasses of wine per gallon and a grand total of 4,800 glasses of wine. Now I do not know how many people were at this feast, but surely 500 would be a large number for such an event at this time. If this wine was alcoholic then Jesus did cause all who were there to drink to excess. This is clearly a sin in the Old Testament. Not only would His excessive drinking have been a sin, but causing others to do so is also a sin. Every Jew present at this wedding, and they were undoubtedly all Jews, would have known Him to be a sinner because of this verse, and many others:

Habakkuk 2:15, “Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also…”

Now my liberal (apostate) friends are quick to assert that Jesus drank alcoholic wine, as a tea totter of course, but are often shocked by the implication this has in John 2. Some have suggested that Jesus didn’t drink any, and that the guests did not have to drink all that he made. These are interesting thoughts, but I think it is clear from context that the guests had drank their fill and were now given a great deal more to drink. I think it is also abundantly clear from context this was not alcoholic wine.

sheno October 19, 2010 at 1:44 am

The word “wine” is mentioned 231 times in the King James Bible. In the Old Testament there are 3 Hebrew words that are all translated as “wine”.

YAYIN: Intoxicating, fermented wine (Genesis 9:21).

TIROSH: Fresh grape juice (Proverbs 3:10).

SHAKAR: Intoxicating, intensely alcoholic, strong drink (often referred to other intoxicants than wine) (Numbers 28:7).

The New Testament, translated from Greek, uses the word “wine” for both fermented and unfermented drink. There are 2 Greek words for wine the New Testament.

OINOS: Wine (generic) – Matthew 9:17 — unfermented, Ephesians 5:18 — fermented.

GLEUKOS: Sweet wine, fresh juice (Acts 2:13).

The context reveals the type of wine as in Proverbs 20:1, ”Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise”. If grape juice is substituted for the word wine, the verse doesn’t make sense.

The Bible is full of prohibitions about using alcoholic wine. It was forbidden for priests and for those who took the Nazarite vow. It was forbidden for kings and princes (Proverbs 31:4-6) and pronounced woe upon anyone who provided his neighbor alcoholic wine and made him drunk (Habakkuk 2:15). It would be inconsistent for the Bible to speak against alcoholic wine and then have Jesus ignore it.

Dwight January 10, 2013 at 10:32 am

Tiyrowsh is fermented new wine and gleukos is as well, which is why they were translated as wine. New wine was wine taken from the fermentation vat before fermenation was complete.
Wine was only prohibited for priest as they entered into the temple and only for those who took the Nazarite vow (as well as anything from the grape), but after the vow was completed they could go back to wine. IT was never forbidden for kings and princes, but was suggested that kings and princes should not drink because of thier ruling duties.

Nick October 31, 2010 at 2:15 pm

Hey, it’s been awhile since I’ve been on this site! My comment about ways to preserve the juice of the grape really sparked some cool conversation! OK, the 4 ways to preserve grape juice I found in a book called, “Booze, Bucks, Bamboozle, and You”. I was reading this book during the time in my life when my church was attempting to persuade me that Christian’s drinking alcohol is sinful and worthy of hell. Since that time, I’ve left that church. After I began asking questions about aspects of their argument that didn’t make sense, they could not give me a satisfactory answer as to why drinking alcohol was evil. So, I could not continue going to a church that was living in denial. If it had been a personal conviction, I could live with that. But saying that their conviction applied to everyone was not a solid argument. Needless to say, I am 21 now and enjoying the complex and captivating flavors of alcohol.

Frank November 9, 2010 at 12:38 pm

Jesus did not drink alcohol or strong wine. There also was a way to preserve sweet wine. They sealed it in a wineskins with pitch and sunk the skins in cold water or a deep cistern for fourty days. The wine would remain sweet for 1 year.
That Jesus the HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL and THE HIGH PRIEST FOREVER MORE would even touch strong wine is obsurd. It has to do with credibility. He turned the water into wine but there is no mention of him drinking it. He was accused by the Parasiees of being a drunk and a glutton. When he mentioned that the Son of Man came eating and drinking and you accuse him of being a winebibber and a glutton. Eating and drinking refers to koinonia or fellowship not drinking or partying. I don’t think I could follow a Jesus that was a hippocrate. You see in order for him to be a perfect sacrafice he had to be sinless. Even touching strong wine as it was called back then would be frowned upon by any who saw him as Mesaiah. It would destroy his testamony. I could say for certain the this article is off the mark and the kind of reading that would make it hard for someone struggleing with drinking to trust in a Jesus that drank.
FG

Dave November 9, 2010 at 2:09 pm

Of course, Jesus was not a drunk, but he did drink wine, which is by definition alcoholic. Jesus was an observant Jew and thereby followed the traditions of Passover, which include drinking wine: “There is a Rabbinic requirement that four cups of wine are to be drunk during the Seder meal.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover#Four_cups_of_wine

If Jesus wanted us to be teetotalers, don’t you think he would have said so specifically? He did not. Likewise, there are no directions in the Bible for the non-alcoholic preservation of grape juice, contrasted with detailed instructions on the selection and preparation of the Passover feast.

Nick November 30, 2010 at 12:18 am

Hey Frank, I admire your passionate stand on this subject and it is clear that God has convicted you in this matter. I also have done in depth studies into what the Bible says about Christians drinking alcohol. I just wanted to point out that a little of your logic above is rather illogical. When you say that Jesus made wine but did not drink it because he found it foul; why would he create something that he found disgusting for all to partake in? I encourage you to look at it another way. If you do a quick internet search for the Greek translation of this part of the Bible, you will find the “wine” Jesus created was known as the morally good wine not the simply good wine. This is what you need to use; not that the Bible doesn’t depict Jesus not drinking the wine he created.

glenn lego December 2, 2010 at 7:57 pm

I don’t condemn anyone for drinking wine or other alcoholic beverages, but I can’t do it because it smells to me like something that died. I used to bag groceries at a supermarket and sometimes I would have a bottle of wine slip out of my hands and drop to the floor and break. The smell of the result of that spillage turned my stomach. Even though I am a Catholic (of recent origin) I cannot take the wine when taking communion. Happily the church says I don’t have to take the wine to receive Jesus in the Eucharist. I do believe Jesus drank wine, however. No doubt he had a stronger constitution than I have. My philosophy is “Others may–I may not!”

Sarah December 20, 2010 at 8:08 pm

Are we not now the temple of God?
This is the restrictions that the priest had to take in order to go into the Holy place. As all Christians know, we no longer have to go into a temple to meet with the Lord, We are the Temple. We must also keep out temple Holy. This is why we have the commandments.
Leviticus 10:8-11
And The Lord spake unto Aaron, saying, Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between clean and unclean

Yes, this was for the Priest, but why was this for the Priest? At this time the priest were the only ones aload into the temple. We are now that temple.

Matthew Warner December 21, 2010 at 8:23 am

Sarah – that’s a very good point. However, if you put it into the context of Jesus and the entirety of scripture it is overwhelmingly clear that Jesus did not make, expect, or live out a total abstinence from wine. In fact, he encouraged, promoted and commanded (at the Last Supper) the drinking of wine. And Jesus is not just a “temple of God”…he IS God.

But this scripture IS a great reminder of why it is never good to be “drunk” or to drink too much.

jamie February 16, 2011 at 6:11 pm

first off, you must have yeast to make wine, or bread. secondly, the old testament was to be lived by law, the 10 commandments, we do not live by that alone now. third, there are way too many scriptures in the bible that let us know to honor our bodies and mind which were bought with a price, his blood. lastly, this is just my opinion, if you were truly a born again christian, why would you choose to alter your mind by drinking? there isn’t any logical christian reason to drink alcohol. if you choose to drink it’s not because God wants you too, it’s because you choose to. justify it however you want, but you could have taken all this time trying to justify it and could have been reading your bibles. K.J.V.

Matthew Warner February 16, 2011 at 10:22 pm

Jamie – wild yeast is present in the air and on the grapes used. So, as stated in the post, any grape juice stored for any length of time (such as until passover) from the grape harvest, would have been fermented – i.e. alcoholic – because there was no practical way to normally “preserve” grape juice and store it back then without having natural (wild) yeast present in it.

The rest of your argument makes no sense. Having wine does not dishonor your mind and body necessarily. We see both uses in scripture…to get drunk (which is sinful) or to celebrate and make hearts glad (wedding feast at Cana, Old Testament, etc.). Wine itself is not the evil. It’s how it is used or abused. Everything you do “alters your mind”. Exercise affects the chemicals in your brain. Coffee (and pretty much every food and drink) alters how your body feels and the chemicals in your brain. So you can’t use the fact that something “alters your mind” as an argument for it being sinful.

Personally, I enjoy reading scripture with a good glass of wine. Of course I use a more complete version than the KJV. Peace and love!

Regular Wino June 10, 2011 at 8:28 am

Well there definitely was wine getting made at the time, although it was a slightly different process to what we’re used to these days.

I would imagine with all the references to wine – as opposed to grape juice – that Jesus did drink wine.

Here’s a piece I wrote about the wine that was drunk back in those days

http://www.regularwino.com/history/what-wine-did-jesus-drink/

Boris June 14, 2011 at 9:02 am

Did Jesus drink wine? He supposedly turned water into wine I guess to one up Dionysus who performed the same trick at a party centuries earlier. I wonder what the ancients would think if some of them could come back to life today and see that we’ve made religions out of their Harry Potter stories.

Matthew September 26, 2011 at 2:21 am

Here is an interesting thought….. As Jesus had His last supper with the disciples which is believed to have also occured on passover…. it is highly probable that the bread broken was unleavened and lacked yeast as was Jewish custom during Passover. Jesus was a devote Jew. Is it too far fetched to believe that the wine that was drank during the last supper also lacked yeast. If so you would have unfermented grape juice not wine. I believe GOD wants us to be sober minded and grape juice still gives us many of the same health benefits of vino except over indulgence of juice is probably not going to give you liver and pancreas cancer. And I would bet that after a long hard season of grape growing in a desert 2000 years ago that when you finally reaped what you had sown with GOD’s blessing upon you….that fresh naturally sweetened juice from the vine would be reason to celebrate and put a smile on your face and joy in your heart. We in most of the modern world take the simpliest pleasures for granted on an hourly basis. I know that drinking grape juice puts joy in my families heart. I also don’t beleive Jesus would lead you into temptation or indulgence of carnal desires. I encourage all brothers and sisters to allow your cup to overflow with the Spirit and the love of GOD not with mind altering beverages. ( ;

anyonomassssssfheoih December 12, 2011 at 3:18 am

FOOD, if eaten to survive, it can be very beneficial duh, if eaten to much can turn a healthy person to a diseased over eating monster. Same with alcohol, a little goes along way, however if drunk too much, you know………. Same thing. Everything is good and bad.

David M December 24, 2011 at 11:01 pm

Well, Noah drank, David drank, they accused Jesus of being a drunk-winebibber. Solmon said its was good for a man to eat, drink and be merry. Now when a person has wine make him merry , which is a term use OFTEN in the bible, we have to conclude that grape juice is not known for making people merry, I drank gallons of grape juice as a child and have no recollection of it altering my mood.
Now as for the Lord turning water into wine as his first miracle, it is easy to see that the wine refered to here was indeed alcoholic, you have to rember the response given to the lord after providing the people with the wine:
John 2:10-And saith unto him , Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine ; and when men have well drunk , then that which is worse [but] thou hast kept the good wine until now
Its not rocket science , its pretty clear what the wine was that they drank.

J January 15, 2012 at 3:16 pm

Fermentation, Preservation and Alcoholic Content

One must have a clear understanding of fermentation to see the unlikelihood of the above contention. First, naturally (no additives) fermented wine has a low alcoholic content. Until the advent of widely available granulated sugar, strongly alcoholic wine was rare. To make wine strongly alcoholic like what we have today (10%-15%) you must add a lot of sugar and yeast. These are the two key components to fermentation, and they are not present in large enough quantities naturally to create the strong wine we have today. Alcoholic wine during biblical times, which was much weaker than the wine of today, was often watered down for drinking. They basically only had water and wine. Like Pepsi or Coke today, wine was consumed by adults and children alike as a tasty substitute for water. Watering down wine was something they did and they drank it this way regularly. Also, boiling it down to a syrup was frequently done for preservation. This boiling killed the yeast that would cause fermentation. The syrup could easily be reconstituted later for drinking purposes. A third form of preservation was by straining out the yeast to prevent fermentation.

RayD May 29, 2012 at 5:13 am

I posted some of this as a reply to one of the posts above, but I liked to have my own post as well, may be to explain more about what I meant.

From John 2:1-11
Jesus saith unto them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now [what is in the waterpots], and bear [bring it] unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine and when men have “W E L L D R U N K”, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

I hope that the words “W E L L D R U N K” clarifies the issue. Normally we don’t say about people “they have well drunk” when they are drinking grape juice. Besides, a little bit of analysis helps. People at the time served the worse wine after everybody has well drunk, because the guests would have been too drunk to tell the difference.

And yes, there is a big difference between drinking a glass of wine with dinner and getting drunk.

RayD May 29, 2012 at 9:49 am

If it helps the discussion, I am originally from Lebanon, and I am Christian. Just out of curiosity, I picked up the Arabic version of the Bible, and this is what I found out:

1. The word they use to describe what Jesus transformed water to is not “wine”, but they use the word “Khamr” which literally means alcohol.

2. The Arabic version of the Bible says literally that they usually offer the worse wine after the guests were “drunk”, and it does not use “after they have well drunk”.

The Arabic version of the Bible is used by Arab Christians from all denominations including Christian Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestants including the Evangelical Church.

diba June 25, 2012 at 6:25 am

the thing is tomuch of evry thing is not good to human body i am with you anyononmas.

Bill June 25, 2012 at 5:39 pm

This is way late, long after the party is over, but …

As to the objection that Jesus would not have given the wedding guests at Cana so much wine, that to give them that much would be to encourage drunkenness, my understanding is that the gift of all that wine illustrates a couple of important points: the generosity of God, who gives in abundance, and that His generosity does not depend on our merits — nobody at the wedding “deserved” or was “entitled to” so much wine. It is also true that God does not try to control our exercise of our free will: the wine was there, but the guests did not have to drink it. Finally, I am pretty sure that the wedding feast was probably not a two-houir sit-down dinner, after which everyone went home. In those days, people travelled a long way, on foot or donkey or in a cart, to get to a wedding feast. These were multiple-day affairs. I think Jesus made sure there was enough to last, and enough to send the guests on their way back home with a skin or two of good wine for the journey.

Our God is an awesome God, and a generous one, too, to those who have faith in him.

Justin July 19, 2012 at 6:16 pm

Jesus and the rest of the people drank wine. Grape juice, had anyone ever wanted to drink it would be wildly expensive as it would require the purchasing of fresh grapes, which are extremely difficult to keep in those times and extremely expensive. The stereotypical images of roman emperors being fed grapes…because they were an extreme luxury even up to the 1900s…. theres no way that rag tag group of men could afford grapes to personally crush and make fresh grape juice nor would they want to.

brandon August 3, 2012 at 10:35 am

It is my belief that Jesus made fresh grape juice and not the forbidden Alcoholic wine. Would he who was sinless make a condemned substance? He would never have made a drink that causes people to lose visual acuity, mental acuity, bodily motor control and that leads to ravings, fighting, vomiting, memory-loss, cirrhosis of the liver, black-outs and loss of brain mass? It is unthinkable to suggest that he made alcoholic wine. It says that the people at the wedding ran out of beverage. If they had drunk all the alcohol they had are we to believe that Jesus made 60 gallons more? . They would have been falling down and slurring their speech and passing out. Would the lover of our souls really do that to people? Open your eyes he came to set us free from alcohol, not make party animals out of us. No he woudnt. He just wanted to prove that he was indeed God. And he did.

Jim August 10, 2012 at 10:18 am

Noah built an Ark, landed the ark, planted a vineyard, and in Genesis 9:21 drank of the wine and ‘got drunk’. Since the beginning of the bible, its fairly obvious that wine is wine folks. This obsession with drinking being a sin altogether is ignorance, fueled by nothing more than false interpretation. Why make being a christian harder than it really is? Gluttony is a sin, but is eating? Later in the bible, it writes of not allowing ourselves to get drunk or to be mastered by anything. – as every person is different, this level is different for everyone. And its really no one elses business. I’ve always wondered how funny people look to God, when they quibble about details in the bible, instead of really witnessing to others about the love of Christ. The bible says not to be mastered, don’t be a glutton nor a drunk. – leave it at that. People are being foolish to delve any deeper than that or to condemn anyone for drinking a beer. Many point to 1 Corinthians 8:9 -’ be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak.’ – which is a calling to everyone as individuals to ‘use common sense’ as the writer poster. And it isn’t your job to determine the practical meaning of this verse to anyone else. The only thing that condemning drinking altogether is doing is causing unnecessary bickering – which to me is a bigger hindrance on ‘the weak’ or your brother than having a drink. Ill leave you with Romans 14:13 – ‘ therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brothers way’

gntlmnr August 10, 2012 at 1:01 pm

When we have hard evidence there is no point in inserting our own analysis to come to a conclusion that satisfies our own logic.

Matthew (11:16 – 19):
16 “To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others:
17 “‘We played the pipe for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge,
and you did not mourn.’
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

Question: Why would people accuse Jesus of being a drunkard if he drank only grape juice and not alcoholic wine?

Otto August 10, 2012 at 2:34 pm

As Easter/Passover is in the Northern Hemisphere spring, it is not possible to get fresh grape juice as grapes are harvested at the end of summer.

As has been said earlier, grapes already have yeast naturally occurring on the skins. It means that grape juice starts to ferment as soon as grapes are crushed, unfermented grape is quite unnatural.

(I use this fact to help keep my faith that an amazing God has built a fantastic world for us to live in. Non wine drinkers are exempt from understanding this as much as virgin celebates are from understanding sex.)

In any case, assuming the wedding was at the end of summer, I welcome anyone to explain the difference between “good” grape juice and second rate grape juice if it is not alcoholic and fresh.

Donneshia August 24, 2012 at 12:02 am

It is important to look at the Hebrew or Greek translation for the word in the context, I am not sure if anyone is familiar with Strong’s Bible Concordance, but it is a great source to understand the correct meaning of words in their context so as not to add or take away from the word of God.

Jamiel Cotman September 6, 2012 at 10:48 am

Thanks.

I’m going to get drunk now.

No I’m kidding. I don’t drink and don’t plan on doing it now.

Great article though!

Charlie September 11, 2012 at 4:06 pm

J, I have made wine from straight grape juice with no added sugar, the grapes at their ripened peak had a high sugar content and some wines turned out to be 14 percent alcohol. Obviously Jesus did drink alcoholic wine or they would not have accused him for being a wine bibber. 1st TIMOTHY 5:23 use a little wine for your stomachs sake for you often infirmities, (it does help) grape juice does not. I don’t think this should be an issue, if you are convinced before God you should’nt drink alcohol, then of course you should not.If you are convinced before God it is okay to have a drink or two, then enjoy it.

Steve September 24, 2012 at 1:13 am

As a former Lutheran but saved now a member of a Southern Baptist church since 1979, I have long taken issue with the issue of drinking wine or alcohol, regardless of its form. I personally, drink wine or beer several times a week in a casual manner and never to get drunk. Because of the Southern Baptist tradition of non-consumption of alcoholic beverages I sometimes feel like a second class Christian because of my conviction that consumed in moderation that alcohol is not sinful. I am firmly convinced that the water that was changed into wine by Jesus, was in fact, alcoholic wine and not grape juice. I simply do not believe that you can make a case for Jesus, a Jewish rabbi , not drinking wine that had not fermented. I am not condemned by the light consumption of alcohol, as for me it has not been an issue. I am,however, frustrated at the stance the many conservative evangelicals take against its consumption based upon the totality of scripture. I personally find it interesting that the same individuals who may condemn alcohol consumption would have no problem going to a buffet line and stuff themselves, way past the point of excess and not see that as something that was condemned, that being gluttony.
Also, if your conscience condemns your actions then its time to give up whatever it is that offends your conscience. If your conscience does not condemn you, after laying it before the Lord, then assume that the Holy Spirit is not prompting a change. Largely speaking, eating and drinking is to be done in balance and not to excess and therein is the core problem.

Blase September 29, 2012 at 5:09 pm

I’m a born again Christian. I’ve have been a member
of a Baptist church where they forbid alcohol. Personally
I don’t have a problem with “a” drink.

But, I do not want to be a stumbling block to others that may
have a problem with alcohol.

Also my Catholic father was a drunk that had no problem
beating my mother, my sister, and me. he’s dead now,
I think he maybe very thirsty.

So just be careful.

David October 5, 2012 at 8:36 am

Jesus turned water to wine to prove His superiority over the laws of the universe. What will the disciples think if He responded,”Sorry, just drink fresh water, I can’t do nothing.” He said many times, if you don’t believe My words, at least believe Me for the sake of My works to the Pharisees. And Jesus did not turn that water to alcohol as many believe, but unfermented grape juice. Wine is what cause Noah to sin, Lot to commit incest, cause prophets and priests to err in judgement and vision, etc. Can you imagine Christ causing the people in the wedding to become rowdy, unrestrained, promiscuous, physical, slanderous, and passed out. These liberal Christians are the same ones that say marijuana is acceptable to the Lord because He made it.

Charlie January 4, 2013 at 4:54 pm

DAVID; It was not wine which caused Noah to sin, nor was it wine that caused Lot to comit incest, just like it was’nt the gun that “CAUSED” someone to shoot another. They themselves are responsible for their own actions. We are responsible for sinning, not anything that we use to sin with.

David January 7, 2013 at 11:24 am

Idk , Scripture says otherwise , Genesis 9:21 Then he [Noah] drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent.
Noah instead of taking responsibility curses Canaan , the son of Ham because he saw him naked(which is a sin) but Noah did not in no way feel also responsible for this sin as well.

Genesis 19:32 Lot’s daughters speaking “Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve the lineage of our father”

Lot not only consented drinking wine which made him sin but did twice. You would think after the first try he would know what’s going on. Nope.

They were responsible for thier actions, but responsibility they did not accept.

gntlmnr October 5, 2012 at 11:24 am

Well David, we do have to agree first and foremost that drinking alcohol and getting drunk are not the same thing at all, period. I always a have a glass of wine with my dinner, but that never ever made me drunk under any circumstances. Secondly, what we are doing here really is trying to come up with things that make sense when we analyze the scriptures, and we are not trying to pass judgments on the intensions as to why Jesus turned water into wine. Try to understand the following verses twice. One time using grape juice as the meaning of drinking and wine; and a second time using real alcoholic wine as the meaning of drinking and wine; then decide for yourself which makes more sense:
• (Matthew 11:19) “The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”
• (John 2:9 – 10) “And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from, the headwaiter called the bridegroom and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.”
• (Ephesians 5:18) “And do not get drunk on wine, in which lies debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,”
• (1 Timothy 5:23) “Stop drinking only water, but have a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.”

David October 6, 2012 at 10:58 am

Jesus called us to be the light of the world and the salt of the world. How are you being that by drinking wine that brings nothing good at all? If Jesus did drink wine it was only on rare occasions and not every dinner as you say you do. Alcohol is the reason families are in abuse, teens are being killed, people committing fornication, etc. it corrupts the judgment. it is good to eat and drink in merry as King Solomon once said but to make it everyday is wrong! As Jesus said of the rich fool who made great feasts EVERYDAY and was corrupted because of daily drinking and eating. Solomon said drinking is not for kings and princes.Notice he said drinking not be intoxicated with it. He was condemning moderation for high rulers because he knew eventually it’ll eventually catch up with them. Jesus is King of kings and the Prince of peace. And you say He drank wine?

gntlmnr October 6, 2012 at 11:13 am

My dear David, I think you’re getting too carried away. Please take it easy on me. What I said was that I always have “A” glass of wine with dinner. I assure you that that never made me lose control, nor lose my judgment, nor become a killer, nor become a rapist, nor become violent to any of my family members or violent to anybody else at all. I am the gentlest person that you could ever meet in the world. I am the most loving to all my friends and my family members. All my friends and my family members adore me. I have been accused of being an extremely logical and extremely reliable person. So a little less prejudgment would be very helpful.

David October 6, 2012 at 11:43 am

Heheh sorry if I came to boldly. My family always tell me that I am to passionate when it comes to preaching the Word. And I believe you my friend. I see wine as a good thing but society has made me paranoid of it. Maybe you have the self control but some people don’t to say the least. They make it their need instead of want.

Matthew Warner October 8, 2012 at 9:26 am

David – I appreciate the passion also, but I think you’re mistaking the villain here. Blaming alcohol for the troubles in families is like blaming knives for stabbings. The problem is much deeper. The problem is that folks aren’t at peace and they are suffering for a lack of God and a lack of love. These things drive them to abuse otherwise good or neutral things.

Attacking alcohol won’t fix the problem. You could take alcohol away and people will carry on sinning and finding other excuses to blame their problems on if we don’t look past it all to the root of the problem.

David October 8, 2012 at 10:15 pm

Hi, Matthew (: I understand. But knives are important. We need it to cut meat, rope, cardboard, etc. And we can both agree that a knife and violent drunkard don’t mix. Anyways wine is a good thing , a nice present to loved ones, to have in a romantic dinner, or simply sit down in the prairie and eat it with bread in a picnic. I don’t disagree with that. But in my generation today’s youth are sinning with it. It is a stumbling stone to them. They post pictures with it, are glad and merry, having their troubles earased temporarily, until they sober and are ready to have another escape. It would of been better if they had never drank alcohol even by one sip, wouldn’t you agree? For it is hard for them to go back to normality because of the relapses.

Matthew Warner October 9, 2012 at 8:16 am

You make it sound like every kid who touches a sip of it becomes an alcoholic and struggles with “relapses” their entire life. That just isn’t true. But yes, for somebody that does happen to, it would have been better for them not to have ever sipped it.

And I don’t think it’s appropriate for youth to be drinking it anyway. Just like you wouldn’t let your 10 yr old drive your car, your 14 yr old shouldn’t be drinking alcohol. They are not old enough to handle the responsibility and mature enough to do it in a healthy way that doesn’t get other people hurt.

So I’m not really sure where we disagree anymore. Nobody here ever advocated that kids should be drinking alcohol or that it is good for EVERYONE to do or at ANY particular time. Certainly the youth today struggle with all kinds of things (as they always have)…alcohol, sex, etc. It doesn’t mean those things are bad themselves. It just means there are bad ways/times to use (i.e. abuse) them. Nobody disagrees with that. But going to the extreme and saying they are always bad or inherently bad is also wrong.

David October 9, 2012 at 2:03 pm

I think abstaining from alcohol forever is best. Spiritually and physically. Too some I may sound like a radical and extremist.

Jeremiah 35:5-6 Then I set before the sons of the house of the rechabites bowls full of wine, and cups; and I said to them, “Drink wine.” But they said, ” We will drink no wine, for Jonadab the son of Rechab, our father, commanded us, saying, “You shall drink no wine, you nor your sons ,forever.

By the honoring their fathers and bodies God made with them a covenant, bless them, and even told Jeremiah to praise them, “Jonadab the son of Rechab shall not lack a man to stand before Me forever.” (Jer 35:19)

The prophet Daniel is another outstanding man of God with great understanding that abstained from alcohol. He could lived in pleasure in the king’s abundance but he refused and fed less his flesh and more his spirit.

Do you know why the Muslims call us drunkards? I don’t blame them,they know so many Christians will a beer in their hands rather then a bible. We must be more holier than them.

Matthew Warner October 9, 2012 at 3:34 pm

David – it’s not that abstaining from certain things can’t be good and sanctifying. They surely can. And maybe it is what is best FOR YOU. But it’s a difficult case to make that abstaining completely from alcohol is best for EVERYONE as some kind of objective statement when Jesus himself drank wine, made wine, fed people wine.

People (Muslim or otherwise) will call people drunkards when they act like drunkards…not because they have a beer in their hand. Having a beer in your hand doesn’t make one a drunkard any more than holding a knife makes you a murderer.

David October 10, 2012 at 9:23 am

The Church makes many objective statements as well! Don’t use birth control, don’t get married, don’t eat meat on Fridays, etc ect the list goes on.

Muslims call us drunkards because we visit bars more often than God’s house, please visits any Catholics house and chances are the husband is a rowdy drunk with more beer in his refrigerator than nutritional food for the children.

Sad! We are suppose be more righteous .Not the atheist , not the Muslims, not the Buddhists, WE ARE!
Jesus said unless your righteousness does not surpass the righteousness of the pharisees and teachers of the law you will by no means enter the kingdom of God.

Call me Saint David, I will be remembered for suffering in the name if Christ.

David October 9, 2012 at 2:11 pm

I agree with you. It’s all in its proper time and usage. Sex is for married wife and husband. All else is sin. Drinking is to enjoy the fruits of your labor. But I like I always said, the cookie jar must not be withins hands reach. And today’s society it makes the temptations easier for the youth. But Jesus said pray and watch, do not fall into temptation. I don’t plan in drinking since I don’t need it. My mnt dew sasitfies my tongue. As for sex, I will wait till marriage. Everything in its seasons and times. Proverbs 26:1 As snow in summer, and as rain in harvest, so honor is not fitting for a fool.

Charlie Speck October 9, 2012 at 1:57 pm

Hello; I think it is obvious now that Jesud did drink wine (alcohol), which was the original question. As someone pointed out, he was’nt accused of being a wine bibber because he drank grape juice. He obviously did’nt turn the water into grape juice at the wedding, what a boring wedding that would make..Yes. wine or alcohol can be and is a problem to some, but only if they choose to over indulge in it, and then it becomes sin. BUT, blaming the alcohol for a persons wrong choices is taking all responsibility from that person.

When we make wrong choices and sin, we have to suffer the consequences. If we suffer as a result of drinking too much, don’t point at the wine and blame it, point at ourself and blame ourself for choosing to drink too much of it. Pointing at the wine and blaming it for our problems is like pointing at food being the blame for our gluttony when we pig out and over eat to the point of moaning and groaning or getting sick, or if I see a $100 bill laying around and have the opportunity to steal it, do I blame the $100 bill for my sin? We have to learn to resist temptation, to not sin.

I know food is a necessity, but choosing to eat too much of it is’nt. There is nothing wrong in eating a hearty meal or having a glass or so of wine, Jesus made both and he enjoyed both as many of us thankfully do. If we cannot enjoy a drink or so without getting drunk or over drinking then it is up to us to not drink at all, and some of us I’m sorry to say HAVE TO do that, or else continue to go on sinning, but again, that is the CHOICE, WE have to make.

We are all responsible for our own actions and choices. Jesus said drunkeness is a sin, I believe him and have struggled with alcohol for years until I made the comittment to drink in moderation and now with his help I am, otherwise I should give it up totally as to not sin.

Alcohol will always be around for not only the youth but any age, just as it was around when I was young and we abused it then as well. Until we learn to believe and rely on what God says, no matter what sin it is, we will make wrong choices and sin and suffer the consequences. Once we turn to him, then with his help we can learn to say NO to those things that harm us, but even then, the CHOICE will be up to us, and we can only blame ourself if we make the wrong chice, WE are responsible for our own actions, not that which tempts us, temptations will always be there.

David October 10, 2012 at 9:29 am

Thank you my brother for your teachings. You are 100% right, it’s our choices and how much we use of it that makes it sin. Everyone loves a fix of oral pleasure. But Satan knows our weakness of the flesh. Beware. He will use alcohol for his use. Just as he uses sex for his use. The flesh is weak, but the Spirit is willing. Be more in the Spirit.

gntlmnr October 10, 2012 at 2:44 am

I once met a gentleman from Saudi Arabia, and of course he was Muslim. He was a fellow student at the college where I was studying. Believe it or not, he was an alcoholic, and eventually, one time he was driving while he was intoxicated and he got into a car accident that totaled his car, and he escaped death miraculously. That was what caused him to quit school and go back to Saudi Arabia. I was very surprised with the fact that he was alcoholic from Saudi Arabia, because as you might all know that alcohol is completely prohibited in that country, and if you find it, it is a black market kind of a thing. I asked him about how he managed to find alcohol in Saudi Arabia, and he told me that they used to do something with rubbing alcohol (which is a process I’m not familiar with), and they used to consume that when they were not able to find real alcoholic beverages. So we can see very clearly here that prohibiting alcohol is not a solution to stop alcoholism. I’ve heard many times that there is a lot of alcoholism in the entire Muslim world. I don’t know exactly how it compares with the US, but it certainly does exist in the Muslim world.

At any rate, I think that excessive drinking is a vice, and nobody can argue against that; however, this is not the question here. The title of the blog is “Did Jesus Drink Alcohol?” The scriptures tells us that Jesus did drink alcohol. So the conclusion in my opinion is: Drinking alcohol in itself is not a sin, but excessive drinking is definitely a sin.

David October 10, 2012 at 9:44 am

I know Muslims that drink here in the US but in sad trut the numbers pale in comparence to the Christian drinkers. I am not saying all Muslims don’t drink but a minority do.

This the Muslim Jesus : A chosen prophet sent to the house of Israel, never drank wine and never ate swine.

Jesus in Chrisitianity : The Redeemer of Israel and the whole world. Did drink wine, eat butter, honey.
I believe in the Christian Jesus. I do believe drinking in moderation is not sinful , but you have to remember back then the alcohol potency wasnt as strong as today is. You had to drink a whole lot to get drunk, now it’s 3 bottles n your out. Moderation has been shrunken to say.

Charlie Speck October 10, 2012 at 2:33 pm

I don’t know why anyone would think wine back then was weaker than wine today. I have made wine from california zifindel grapes. I crushed them myself and made wine with only the juice with no added surgars. The alcohol content was around 15-16%. The average wine today is 12-14.5% some maybe 15%. Depending on the region and the surgar content of the grapes, will determine what the alcohol content will be. I think the grapes back then were just as good or better than today with the excellent climate for SWEET grapes (high sugar content) which turns into high alcohol content.

We all agree Jesus did drink wine and enjoyed it in moderation. If anyone drinks 3 glasses at a time which would probably equal a bottle of wine, then maybe they are drinking in excess, and therefore sinning.

Anyway, I feel we answered the original question with all the input and biblical proof, our own opinions really don’t count, although some excellent thoughts have been shown. Maybe lets go on to another question, we beat this one to death. (Please don’t be angry at what I’m saying, it’s just a thought.)

gntlmnr October 11, 2012 at 1:10 am

This forum is a debate and an exchange of ideas. Nobody should be really getting angry about what you’re saying. In any debate there is going to be a difference in opinions. If somebody is going to get angry because of that difference of opinions, then they should not be debating in the first place.

David October 11, 2012 at 7:39 am

They would mix it with more water to have more make it less alcoholic but quenching more the thirst. Romans usually did this. Alcohol dehydrates, and the romans knew. They didnt want to be caught off guard in case of suprise attack. And yes, I agree, Jesus did drink wine. Next question.

Dwight January 10, 2013 at 10:38 am

Most of the time they mixed wine with water so they could drink more of it. This wine-water mixing wasn’t a Jewish practice.
They also knew how to make wine more alcoholic if need be, by ripening grapes into raisins and then squeezing them, then adding them to fermenting wine, because some grape swere weaker than others.

gntlmnr October 10, 2012 at 9:59 am

When you say “now it’s 3 bottles n your out”, did you really means 3 bottles or 3 glasses?

I think 3 glasses are more than enough to make somebody lose judgment. 3 bottles would be definitely insane. If this is you’re thinking then I definitely agree with you. There is no question in my mind that consuming 3 bottles of wine in a day is insane.

David October 11, 2012 at 7:41 am

Believe me, I know ppl that their body have become resistant and need more.

gntlmnr October 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm

Well David, different people do have different resistance to alcohol for sure, but when I am talking about moderate drinking, I mean to have one or may be two glasses. I think to many people having a third and a fourth glass would be pushing it.

David October 11, 2012 at 12:54 pm

I have question. When the gay men enclosed around Lot’s house to get the two angels to have sex with and Lot (unaware they were angels) wanting to protect them from such perversity offered the crowd his two beautiful virgin daughters instead to do with them as they please. But the crowd refused and well you know the rest of the story, Was that honorable what Lot suggested? Was it a righteous act? Was it being to hospitable?

gntlmnr October 12, 2012 at 12:43 am

First of all I fail to see the connection between your question and drinking alcohol moderately. Second, it would be extremely difficult for me to make an objective judgment on what lot tried to do, given that we are talking about a completely different time in history. We have to remember that even the law of Moses was not in existence at that time.

David October 12, 2012 at 8:00 pm

But you didn’t answer my question.

gntlmnr October 13, 2012 at 2:18 am

I’m not sure where you’re trying to go with your question, but please let’s not divert the course of the discussion too far from the topic of this forum. It would not be polite of us to do so.

I can give you my opinion on what Lot tried to do. It was certainly honorable of Lot to try to protect his two guest, but I don’t think it was honorable of him to offer his two virgin daughters; but I was not terribly surprised by what he tried to do. After all the Bible of full of righteous people doing unrighteous things at one point or another in their life. Look at what Lot’s uncle Abraham did when he went to Egypt. He made a very big lie and did not tell the Egyptians that Sarah was his wife, and the King of Egypt slept with his wife Sarah as a result of this lie. Jesus Christ is the only person in the Bible that never sinned, everyone else did.

gntlmnr October 13, 2012 at 2:24 pm

Correction to what I said. instead of “and the King of Egypt slept with his wife Sarah as a result of this lie.”
replace with “and the King of Egypt could have slept with his wife Sarah as a result of this lie.” because he actually did not sleep with her.

David October 13, 2012 at 2:45 pm

Are you catholic?

Blase October 10, 2012 at 2:40 pm

I am amazed at the response this topic is getting.

I am not a Catholic, but I have been to many Catholic
weddings, graduations, parties, and KC halls. Drunkenness
was normal and I must admit, very entertaining.

I had a pastor that said it very well about anything
you question, “when it doubt, DON’T!”.

gntlmnr October 14, 2012 at 1:51 am

Dear David, I feel that we are entering a brand new debate, and I think this is not the place for it. You can e-mail me at gntlmnr@ymail.com, if you want to ask me questions that are not related to the title of this blog. I’ll try to answer as much as I can.

David November 13, 2012 at 12:46 am

Brand new debate? Just answer my question, are you catholic?

gntlmnr November 13, 2012 at 1:18 am

Dear David, I am not comfortable with the tone of your demanding orders. We are not in the army here. You asked me two irrelevant questions so far, and God knows how many you will ask me after that. I don’t see any relationship between your two questions and the subject being discussed; therefore, I am not going to answer your question.

David November 13, 2012 at 2:30 am

Did I use an exclamation mark to signal demanding orders? This is demanding, “ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!!” Don’t be to quick to judge me. I am an extremely gentle and humble person. Peace.

gntlmnr November 13, 2012 at 3:15 am

Ok, I have been many things in the past from Agnostic, to Episcopalian, and now I go to a Catholic church, and previously I had been to few Protestant denominations, but I never was a member of any of the Protestant denominations, unless you consider Episcopalians as Protestants, because at one point I was a member of an Episcopal church. Why do you ask, and what prompted you to ask this question? Could you please answer.

David November 15, 2012 at 2:52 am

I was curious. I am a Protestant.

gntlmnr November 15, 2012 at 4:01 am

We are brothers in Christ even when we disagree on how to interpret certain things in the Bible.

David November 16, 2012 at 1:57 pm

I know(: but some things in Catholicism are obviously unbiblical hands down.

Matthew Warner November 16, 2012 at 2:02 pm

David – I’d say you’re definitely wrong on that point. Hands down.

David November 16, 2012 at 4:48 pm

Matthew- where in the Holy Bible is the bodily ascension to heaven of the Virgin Mary and her coronation recorded?

Matthew Warner November 16, 2012 at 5:09 pm

David,

There is implicit scriptural evidence for the assumption (not ascension) of Mary. But I don’t want to get off topic. Your implication seemed to be that Catholicism taught things that were contrary to the Bible. If that’s not what you meant, then I apologize.

If instead you mean that not every teaching in Catholicism is explicitly spelled out in the Bible, then yes, I would agree. But then again, your implication seems to be that for something to be valid Christian belief it has to be spelled out explicitly in the bible. But that would be incorrect and a completely foreign concept to authentic Christianity (including the Apostles and the early Christians).

The Bible never claims to explicitly include all of Christian teaching or all of what happened to Jesus (or any other early Christians). In fact, it explicitly says that it DOES NOT.

Charlie Speck October 18, 2012 at 1:06 pm

I’m kind of lost now, what is it we are debating?, is it still “Did Jesus drink wine” OR? Maybe we can go on to another topic.

adam November 10, 2012 at 1:31 am

And he smoke a joint yeh Right,the only people who say he drank drugs are the people who like to drink Wine BUZZ GROG ITS ALL THE SAME 2 VS in the bible say drink 77 SAY DONT DRINK.So keep on drinking Buzz and condeming people who snort shot up and have joint.What you real have to ask your self is ,ls it better to drink or not to drink .Drink buzz is one bad witness get it.

gntlmnr November 13, 2012 at 12:04 am

There is no need for all your sarcasm. We certainly can live without it. Instead, you can enlighten us and at least tell us what are some of those 77 verses that say Jesus did not drink wine.

Charlie November 13, 2012 at 3:04 pm

WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ADAM, YOU MAKE VERY LITTLE SENSE. THERE ARE NO VERSES IN THE BIBLE SAYING JESUS DID’NT DRINK WINE, WHEREVER YOU GOT 77 VERSES SAYING SUCH A THING MUST BE IN SOME OTHER LITERATURE. READ THE BIBLE AND CHECK IT OUT, DON’T JUST GUESS AT IT, PROVE IT..ALL VERSES POINT TO THE FACT JESUS DID DRINK WINE, BUT ALWAYS IN A PROPER MANNER,

adam November 14, 2012 at 2:14 am

You have your caps lock on ,YOU ARE A WELL MEANING Christian and are trying to fundamental justify your moderate drinking of alcoholic beverages in the teaching others that it ok to take drugs and to say showed the example there are .75 WARNINGS in the bible about drinking have your read them.So
If we follow through on a decision about alcohol, but not in obedience to the Spirit, we have failed.So pray about it let me know wat God told you.You must drink for a buzz Get filled with the spirt and you wont want to drink . l never said 77 vs Jesus did not drink but 75 warning vs about Grog .Why do you drink are you lacking somthingProv. 31:4-6 “it is not for kings to drink wine, nor for princes intoxicating drink; “You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me,Many Churches and their Members like to justify the drinking of wine at communion and in general by saying that Christ Jesus drank wine and gave wine to the Apostles at the last supper; but that is a fallacy. There is absolutely no scriptural evidence that Christ Jesus ever drank wine Himself or ever tried to get anyone else to drink wine. ln all scriptural accounts of the last supper it is “the cup” or “the fruit of the vine” that Jesus offers to the Apostles, not wine:Love Adam,

Kenneth January 4, 2013 at 6:19 pm

Adam; It has been pointed out in scripture very plainly to have a drink of wine is okay, even as Jesus did, and he did not sin. A person can be filled with the spirit and still have a drink. You somehow (assume) those who have a drink only do so to get drunk. Jesus did drink wine and he was’nt lacking something as you suggest those who drink wine do. Over and over again it has been shown in scripture a little alcohol is not sin, but there are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Gntlmnr makes some very good comments, please go over them as well as other comments and the plain scriptures showing the bible plainly points out, drunkeness or overindulging in wine or other forms of alcohol is a sin, but on the other hand, to enjoy a drink in moderation is not sin.

gntlmnr November 14, 2012 at 9:00 am

Adam, please let’s be a little more logical here. First of all we do have to agree on how to interpret the word “wine”. It is either we interpret it as literally “wine” as in alcoholic wine all the time throughout the Bible, or we interpret it as “fruit of the vine” all the time throughout the Bible, because it really makes no sense to interpret it “alcoholic wine” in one place, and then turn around and interpret it “fruit of the vine” in another place. Having said that, then what you quoted from Proverbs 31:4 makes absolutely no sense. You seem to insist that when the word “wine” is used, as it is used throughout the Bible, it really means “fruit of the vine”. So let’s plug that interpretation in the verse that you quoted, and here’s what you get:
It isn’t for kings, Lemuel,
it isn’t for kings to drink “FRUIT OF THE VINE””,
for rulers to crave[a] strong drink.

Now for heaven’s sake, does that make sense to you?

adam Musgrove January 18, 2013 at 12:49 am

Some of you people are jokes Would the perfect, sinless man make a drink, or partake of a drink. There are two main Hebrew words in the Bible for wine Tirosh and Yayin. Tirosh is always unfermented non-alcoholic grape juice and gladdens the heart and is good for an upset stomach. Yayin is also non-alcoholic when it is fresh and is sometimes referred to as a blessing, but when Yayin becomes fermented it becomes a poison and is severely condemned. God’s people were not to drink alcohol.Noah drank Yayin and was drunken in his tent”
(Genesis 9:20).
“come let us make our father drink Yayin and we will lie with him.” (Genesis 19:30-38) spoken by the daughters of Lot.
“Do not drink Yayin nor strong drink when you go into the tabernacle lest you die.” (Leviticus 10-9-10).
“They have given a boy for a harlot and sold a girl for Yayin that they might drink.” (Joel 3:3)
“Awake ye drunkards, weep and howl ye drinkers of Yayin.” (Joel 1:5)
“Yayin is a mocker , strong drink is a raging and whosoever is deceived by it is not wise.” (Prov.20.1)
“They assemble themselves for corn and Yayin and they rebel against me.” (Hosea 7:14)
“Whoredom and Yayin ..take away the heart.” (Hosea 4:11)
“Woe to those that are at ease in Zion…that lie upon beds of ivory…that drink Yayin (Amos 6:6)
“Be not among Yayin drinkers” (Prov. 23:20)you see it all bad there is no good Alcoholic Yayin is called “the poison of dragons, the cruel venom of asps” that comes from the grapes that are grown on the terraces of Sodom and Gomorra (Deut.32:33 NEB ).

Even in moderation it is a poison. You wouldn’t advocate adultery in moderation, or murder in moderation so why would you advocate taking Alcohol in moderation?
So l will ask you one thing is it ok for me to have a smoke of dope ,only at Xmas with my famliy in Amsterdam we do it ever years ITS Tradition jusy answer yes or no.love Adam

Matthew Warner January 18, 2013 at 9:18 am

Adam – your facts are not only off, but your logic in your final question is, too.

Things like adultery or murder are ALWAYS wrong no matter what. IF that were the case with alcohol, you could make a similar statement. But it’s not. It’s clearly not. Especially if you look at scripture and other historical/practical facts presented elsewhere on this page.

Drinking alcohol and getting drunk are two different things. Getting drunk is always a sin. Drinking alcohol is not.

Eating cupcakes is not a sin by itself. Eating 50 cupcakes in one sitting is (i.e. gluttony and very unhealthy).

David January 18, 2013 at 10:10 am

Your logic is off too. Who would eat 50 cupcakes? Maybe 5 . As a Catholic apologist you ought to be ashamed of yourself. The Name of God is blasphemed by Muslims because of you Catholics that profane His Holiness. There is no moderate drinking. Alcohol brings tragedy to homes.To despise the beer bottle is to despise the source of evil. Lawlessness arises from the consumption of alcohol. To deny this is to deny truth.

Matthew Warner January 18, 2013 at 10:28 am

A beer bottle is not the “source of evil.” That’s where you’re going off. The source of evil is our fallen nature and the temptations of the world, the flesh and the devil that convince us to ABUSE things like alcohol in an evil way.

A beer bottle by itself is not evil anymore than a car, or money, or a cupcake, or a knife, or sex is evil. Each of these things can be beautifully good things when used appropriately. Each of them can also be abused for evil.

David January 19, 2013 at 11:46 am

You say are source of evil is our fallen nature , the flesh. Your right. Why take the chance with sex, cupcakes, beer, money, and materials? That’s like saying alright , “Alright Satan I’m opening the door to my heart. don’t come in. It’s only gonna be opened for a little while. That I might enjoy myself a little.” Do you think Satan will listen? Of course not. Blessed is that man who by means opens his door nor leaves it open, save Christ alone. Didn’t your beloved Augustine of Hippo say once , “Compelete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation.” I thought you Catholics venerated him.

Let me give you a better analogy, ‘Who you would give a knife to a 5 year old?’

gntlmnr January 18, 2013 at 11:15 am

David, I noticed on more than one occasion that you mention the Muslims in this debate, and I truly don’t understand your preoccupation with this issue. The issue of alcohol is truly a negligible issue that is different between us and the Muslims. The Muslims don’t believe that Jesus is the Son of God. The Muslims believe that we worship three different gods. The Muslims don’t believe that Jesus was crucified. The Muslims don’t believe that Jesus died on the cross. The Muslims don’t believe that Jesus resurrected from death. I can go on and on and on… So why is the issue of alcohol is such an important issue with you when the Muslims don’t believe in the very basics of Christianity.

David January 19, 2013 at 11:32 am

Why? Because you study thier religion they are prohibited from drinking wine or any alcoholic beverage. Though I am respected by most Muslims for my views on wine , they see the wrong picture of Christianity because of us! They see instead of a bible in our hand , we hold a beer bottle (venom bottle they call it). Our instead of being church for fellowship we are in a bar. All because Christ drank “wine” that’s our warrant to drink away. During Prohibtion the law was that beer and any intoxicating drink was illegal to distribute and buy. Now the Bible says we are suppose to be subject to our government law as long as it doesnt conflict with God’s commandments (which never has commandment ‘Thou must drink!”) During that time people still drank and distributed, so even when they drank moderately they were sinning against government and God alike. Get the picture? We pursue sin and not Godliness. Let be humorous now. If they called a Prohibtion on ‘apple juice’ the unrest wouldn’t be as great. Why? Because its okay to drink it. I am converting Muslims but they come from a really strict religion so one must be strict in holiness so that they may believe the Gospel (the Redemption of Christ) if I was a hypocrite with a beer bottle in my hand saying ‘Jesus died for your sins!’ they would just at laugh me and say ‘He sure did’

adam Musgrove January 20, 2013 at 2:00 am

Well why cant l have a joint.so smoking dope is up there with adultery or murder get real.

gntlmnr January 20, 2013 at 2:15 am

The point here is to discuss whether Jesus drank alcohol or not. The Bible specifically states that Jesus drank alcohol. If you refuse that, then you should take up your issue with Jesus and the Bible. There are enough studies that show that moderate use of alcohol is NOT detrimental to your health, but on the contrary, it is good for your health. If you refuse to accept that also, then you should take up your argument with the people who are doing these studies. You and David seem to have a personal problem with alcohol. That’s fine, but don’t impose your views on the rest of the population.

gntlmnr January 19, 2013 at 12:26 pm

Well David, if you want to customize your behavior based on what Muslims expect to see of you, you might as well convert to Islam, because Muslims don’t like it when Christians eat pork, they don’t like it when we are not circumcised, they don’t like it when our women are walking with no veil, etc… Drinking alcohol moderately is not the only thing that Muslims don’t like about Christian behavior. So like I said, you might as well convert to Islam, this way they will be very happy with you.

adam Musgrove January 20, 2013 at 2:08 am

l am with you David .They love the fealing of drugs smoke it drink it hit it .lts all the same.Christians are commanded to be temperate. That does not imply moderation. Temperate means literally to cut off all intoxicants.l was at church cooking ladys xmas tea,a guy bought a bottle of wine in to share my friend had some and went on a bender got lockup wine is bad news.Satan has been laughing for over two thousand years that he was able to unite the cult of the wine god Dionysius to Christianity. Dionysius was his name in Greece, but in Egypt he was known as Moloch. I say it’s time for Satan to stop laughing and the children of Yahveh to stand up and say thus far, but no farther. Amen .Brothers and Sisters you cannot take any intoxicants and expect to inherit immortality. I’d recommend you take little or no chemicals into your system or herbs with hallucengenic effects.

“Watch and be sober”

David January 20, 2013 at 12:48 pm

Satan has been productive in the beer company as well as the dosmetic homes where the liquor resides for his evil use. It can’t be argued that beer causes sorrow and suffering . Universally it is evident. @Matthew says we are sinful by nature yet agrees to our vulnerable natures by allowing moderate drinking.

gntlmnr January 20, 2013 at 1:00 pm

David, moderate drinking is NOT an issue, and it is NOT a social problem. The social problem is getting addicted to alcohol and NOT moderately drinking. There are people all over the world drinking moderately, and their numbers are far, far greater than the people who do not drink alcohol at all; then, if moderate alcohol drinking is such a big problem as you are making it to be, then we must be living a horrible disaster as result of that.

David January 20, 2013 at 2:33 pm

I tell you, you will always find a drunkard who was once a moderate but NEVER a moderate who was once a drunkard. The number of people being alcohol dependent is far greater than people drinking moderately. Russia being the top 1. Moderation is even non-existent which is why we don’t have a “horrible disaster” as a result. I went to college and believe me , moderate drinking was never in their minds.idk maybe they were young and dumb. But yea from the looks of it , moderate drinking belongs to the elders only.

adam Musgrove January 20, 2013 at 2:58 am

The interesting thing from the study is that the scientists involved concluded that alcohol was actually more harmful than crack and heroin. While that seems crazy to some, at the very least it should finally confirm that alcohol, while legal is just as full of harmful chemicals as the rest of the drugs.It’s an easy to get drug that isn’t as much fun as the rest of them, but it’s a drug nonetheless.
Did you know that scientists say alcohol is as bad for you as hard drugs?
Wine and beer make people lose control; they get loud and stumble around. And that is foolish.

gntlmnr January 20, 2013 at 3:08 am

You are definitely confusing moderate drinking of alcohol and getting drunk on alcohol. Moderate drinking of alcohol never does what you claim it does. If you think so, then you should correct Saint Paul when he said to Saint Timothy:

(1 Timothy 5:23) “Stop drinking only water, but have a little WINE for the sake of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.”

adam Musgrove January 20, 2013 at 6:17 am

He told him that becouse THE WATER WAS DIRTY ,is your water DIRTY to .To say Paul is talling us to brink Buzz .You need to pray and have a good look at yourself.Brother and fried Madness yOU SHOULD GET THAT VS TATTOO ON YOUR ARM.

gntlmnr January 20, 2013 at 6:29 am

Adam, I really think that you are an extremely prejudiced and ignorant person and you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. You don’t know me at all, and you have a very wrong idea of who I am. Yet you are jumping to conclusions that have absolutely nothing to do with me, and you are very proud of your own ignorance. People like you believe what they believe simply because they say so. You have no logic. You offer no reasonable arguments. You love to argue just for the sake of arguing. People like you make excellent dictators. I bid you farewell.

Adam January 20, 2013 at 11:01 pm

Well please forgive me pray about it God Will Help You love brother in Christ Adam
Wish you where my lawer you take well.

gntlmnr January 21, 2013 at 2:47 am

Yes dear Adam, I am definitely your brother in Christ, and I apologize if I was harsh on you. I was just irritated with the way you were addressing me. Please forgive me if I hurt your feelings. I am not a lawyer, very far from it. I am privileged that I know where my limits are, and I don’t indulge myself into the wrong things. I am privileged that I have a good and loving family. I am privileged that I am not homeless, and so on; but I am not privileged probably in the sense that you are meaning it to be. I am not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. I am just an ordinary person that lives day to day. Again, I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings, because that was not my aim.

I know alcohol is a problem, and it destroys families, but anything used the wrong way destroys and it doesn’t build. The question here is whether Jesus drank alcoholic wine or not. In order to find out whether he did or not, we have to study the portion of the Bible where Jesus himself was living, and not hundreds or thousands of years before he lived. I know Jesus is God and that God is the same in the Old and New testaments, but the culture was changing all the time and it did not remain the same throughout the Bible, and, besides being 100% God, Jesus was also 100% human as well, and he was living in the culture of his time. I do have to admit my ignorance of all the references of alcohol and wine in the Old Testament, but when we examine the New Testament and the culture of the New Testament, it is very evident that Jesus drank alcoholic wine and not non-alcoholic wine as some people claim. So please Adam read the New Testament without any preconceived ideas. Read it with all objectivity, and you will discover it for yourself that the wine that was being referred to in the New Testament is indeed alcoholic wine.

Peace be with you, brother Adam.

Otto January 20, 2013 at 6:39 am

Adam,

Mate, you are incoherent, your grasp of the English language has slipped.

You seem to be severely intoxicated.

When you have sobered up I suggest that you publish your thoughts in a considered manner as bespeaks this serious discussion.

Adam January 20, 2013 at 3:10 pm

There is absolutely NO way for a believer to justify drinking alcoholic beverages. The Scriptures found in Proverbs 23:29-35 clearly warn everyone (Christian or non-Christian) to abstain from the DANGEROUS SUBSTANCE OF ALCOHOL. “Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.” Did you read that?…LOOK NOT! God is telling us NOT to drink intoxicating wine, not even to “look” at it (i.e., consider drinking it)! For the wise Christian, drinking alcohol is NOT even an option.yes l am not as smart as you ,but l have the spirit of God in me.You just love a drink .when was the last time you where drunk hey well.

Adam January 20, 2013 at 3:29 pm

Sounds like you comes from a rich and privileged background.

Adam January 20, 2013 at 6:11 pm

Well please forgive me pray about it God Will Help You love brother in Christ Adam

David January 21, 2013 at 9:09 pm

I’ll just leave this here

Mortality
Number of alcoholic liver disease deaths: 15,990[US Alone]
Number of alcohol-induced deaths, EXCLUDING accidents and homicides: 25,692[US Alone]

Alex June 23, 2013 at 4:10 am

David, any life lost to alcoholism is such a waste, butbitbin no way makes alcohol the sin, just like food and gluttony, personal responsibility is vital. My wife and I dont drink, but that’s a personal choice and if we try to tell other that to be Christian they can’t drink, we are now saying we know better than God and that’s dangerous. Same with gambling, but these people sure have a retirement fund a 401k… Uhm that’s the textbook definition of gambling… Once again “sober” not in excess. The bible states do not add or take away for Gods word and do not live by mans laws and traditions. God Bless.

adam Musgrove January 22, 2013 at 2:09 am

The Book of the Revelation says no sorcerers can enter God’s kingdom. The word “Sorcerer” in Greek is pharmakia(drug users) I Corinthians 6:9-10)lt is a Drug Jesus did not eat pork but that has changed ,they say Jesus drunk alcoho so what to stop me .Pray to the father ,is it right to drink alcohol for fun .So l will ask you one thing is it ok for me to have a smoke of dope ,only at Xmas with my famliy in Amsterdam we do it ever years ITS Tradition just answer yes or no.love Adam PLEASE KEEP YOU COMMENT TO YES OR NO

gntlmnr January 22, 2013 at 3:07 am

My answer for smoking dope would be a definite “NO”, because I am not aware of any health benefits resulting from smoking dope.

My answer for having a glass of wine with dinner would be a definite “YES”, because there are health benefits resulting from having one glass of wine with dinner.

adam Musgrove January 22, 2013 at 3:16 am

l have great back pian now is it ok.Marijuana is one of the most beneficial and therapeutically active substances known to man.Few herbs offer a wide variety of therapeutic applications like these:
Relief of muscle spasms
Relief of chronic pain
Reduction in interlobular pressure inside the eye
Suppression of nauseChronic pain – Marijuana helps to alleviate the pain caused from many types of injuries and disordersyYES OR NO.

gntlmnr January 22, 2013 at 3:31 am

I will ask my doctor, and if he tells me that the benefits of smoking a joint outweigh the harm it causes, then I will definitely have a joint.

Alex June 23, 2013 at 4:02 am

Good article, the Bible nowhere says alcohol is a sin,mbut it does say things in excess can become sinful. The word sober comes fron the Greek “not in excess.” a wine, beer, cocktail is no more sinful than a Starbucks coffee. Anything in excess can become sinful because in can make you start to take your eyes off of God. We don’t drink, but that’s personal, not biblical. Jesus whipped out the 613 Jewish laws when questionesnabout which law was the most important, but we knucklehead Christians have made thousands of sef-righteous laws that do nothing more than divide the kingdom. Read the Bible, everything you need is in there, you can’t pick and choose catch phrases, but read it in its entirety. We Baptists are starting to come around, but the Methodists and Catholics are doing well. Here’s a tip that America has gotten away from… Take personal responsibility for your action, use your brain and think and you’ll do alright. God Bless

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