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	<title>Comments on: Catholics on Condoms for AIDS in Africa</title>
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	<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/</link>
	<description>A Catholic Social Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Ms. Abominable</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-3277</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. Abominable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=889#comment-3277</guid>
		<description>Of course the underlying problem with the African AIDS epidemic isn&#039;t solely condom usage and &quot;dehumanizing sexuality&quot;. It&#039;s politics and the economy keeping single mothers poor and forcing them to sell sex to support their families. No condom means more money for food. It&#039;s ignorance and superstition that make AIDS infected men believe taking a girl&#039;s virginity will cure them.

It&#039;s self-appointed authority oversimplifying the problem to &quot;condoms are just as bad as AIDS&quot;. Maybe people would be more inclined to use the condoms they&#039;ve been provided if they weren&#039;t being told condoms are essentially useless.

The whole issue is more complicated than either side typically tries to portray it and I agree with what Albert said: Abstinence yes, faithfulness sure, but if you can’t resist, then condom please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course the underlying problem with the African AIDS epidemic isn&#8217;t solely condom usage and &#8220;dehumanizing sexuality&#8221;. It&#8217;s politics and the economy keeping single mothers poor and forcing them to sell sex to support their families. No condom means more money for food. It&#8217;s ignorance and superstition that make AIDS infected men believe taking a girl&#8217;s virginity will cure them.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s self-appointed authority oversimplifying the problem to &#8220;condoms are just as bad as AIDS&#8221;. Maybe people would be more inclined to use the condoms they&#8217;ve been provided if they weren&#8217;t being told condoms are essentially useless.</p>
<p>The whole issue is more complicated than either side typically tries to portray it and I agree with what Albert said: Abstinence yes, faithfulness sure, but if you can’t resist, then condom please.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Warner</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-3260</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=889#comment-3260</guid>
		<description>Margaret - thanks for the thoughts.  But now you&#039;re skewing the stats to say what you want.  

These points are getting a little off topic, but if you truly want to find the stats to support what I am generally claiming, they are very easy to find.

Further, the study I DO link to in this post shows exactly the point I&#039;m making - That the introduction of Condoms into Africa has shown to make the problem worse, not better. I&#039;m not sure how that&#039;s not enough critical thinking for you.

&quot;The life time trends are very clear&quot;? I think so too, and they certainly don&#039;t start in the 70&#039;s. Come on. Some of this activity may have peaked in the 70s by some standards or measurements, but that is hardly the &quot;life time trend&quot;!  Further, measuring these things has gotten more complex in subsequent decades for many reasons.  

For example, with divorce, we now have unprecedented numbers of couples living together outside of marriage. So while divorce rates may have stabilized, the overall problem has gotten far worse.

And much of the stabilization of divorce rates has occurred as a result of adults having experience the sadness of divorce first hand. So they respect marriage more. Condoms certainly were not the reason for such stabilization!

At the heart of all these problems is a disrespect for the human person and human sexuality. Contraception continues to disrespect that at the very foundation of it all. It will not fix our problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Margaret &#8211; thanks for the thoughts.  But now you&#8217;re skewing the stats to say what you want.  </p>
<p>These points are getting a little off topic, but if you truly want to find the stats to support what I am generally claiming, they are very easy to find.</p>
<p>Further, the study I DO link to in this post shows exactly the point I&#8217;m making &#8211; That the introduction of Condoms into Africa has shown to make the problem worse, not better. I&#8217;m not sure how that&#8217;s not enough critical thinking for you.</p>
<p>&#8220;The life time trends are very clear&#8221;? I think so too, and they certainly don&#8217;t start in the 70&#8242;s. Come on. Some of this activity may have peaked in the 70s by some standards or measurements, but that is hardly the &#8220;life time trend&#8221;!  Further, measuring these things has gotten more complex in subsequent decades for many reasons.  </p>
<p>For example, with divorce, we now have unprecedented numbers of couples living together outside of marriage. So while divorce rates may have stabilized, the overall problem has gotten far worse.</p>
<p>And much of the stabilization of divorce rates has occurred as a result of adults having experience the sadness of divorce first hand. So they respect marriage more. Condoms certainly were not the reason for such stabilization!</p>
<p>At the heart of all these problems is a disrespect for the human person and human sexuality. Contraception continues to disrespect that at the very foundation of it all. It will not fix our problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Margaret</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-3259</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=889#comment-3259</guid>
		<description>People, please. Be a critical reader of BOTH sides of this complex issue.

You seem to be adept at conveying seeming &#039;truths&#039; with nary a cited source in the whole mess. Here are some of of your gems of wisdom: &quot;As our culture has greatly increased the availability and distribution of contraception over the past few decades, has the spread of STDs gone up or down? It’s gone drastically up. Has the number of average sexual partners for each person gone up or down? It’s gone drastically up. Has infidelity within marriage gone up or down? It’s gone drastically up.&quot; 

You then sum up your &quot;findings&quot; with, &quot;And now we have more broken families, more unwanted pregnancies, more abortions, more suffering from STDs as a result of all of that.&quot;

Interesting. And counter to an actual report with actual numbers: http://www.cdc.gov/...the rates of divorce, STDs and # of sexual partners have decreased up to 5-fold since the 1970s. If you choose to interpret the data from year to year, you may spin the story however you like. However, the lifetime trends are very clear, and not very compelling for your argument. 

By the way, I am a monogamous married Catholic. But also a critical reader and thinker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People, please. Be a critical reader of BOTH sides of this complex issue.</p>
<p>You seem to be adept at conveying seeming &#8216;truths&#8217; with nary a cited source in the whole mess. Here are some of of your gems of wisdom: &#8220;As our culture has greatly increased the availability and distribution of contraception over the past few decades, has the spread of STDs gone up or down? It’s gone drastically up. Has the number of average sexual partners for each person gone up or down? It’s gone drastically up. Has infidelity within marriage gone up or down? It’s gone drastically up.&#8221; </p>
<p>You then sum up your &#8220;findings&#8221; with, &#8220;And now we have more broken families, more unwanted pregnancies, more abortions, more suffering from STDs as a result of all of that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Interesting. And counter to an actual report with actual numbers: <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/...the" rel="nofollow">http://www.cdc.gov/&#8230;the</a> rates of divorce, STDs and # of sexual partners have decreased up to 5-fold since the 1970s. If you choose to interpret the data from year to year, you may spin the story however you like. However, the lifetime trends are very clear, and not very compelling for your argument. </p>
<p>By the way, I am a monogamous married Catholic. But also a critical reader and thinker.</p>
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		<title>By: Austin</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-3093</link>
		<dc:creator>Austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 01:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=889#comment-3093</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s an interesting issue. But the thing is kind of divided on solutions and issues. 
--1) condoms are far too accessible. (granted that NOW reducing them would only increase the number of issues for a large period of time) 
--2) sexual education is about as effective as most other educations. Common sense in each generation is receding. It&#039;s a trait that is being lost as time goes by. 
Condoms, like abortion, were made to solve a problem. But Condoms, like abortion, were made too accessible and made to be everyday things. 
So the issue all in all cannot be blamed on any one party as much as seen to be something worth fixing.

We cannot simply get rid of condoms. Isn&#039;t gonna happen. But the education of them, the education towards our selves can be bettered. 
I don&#039;t know how we can better it or make it more effective but surely I&#039;m working on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an interesting issue. But the thing is kind of divided on solutions and issues.<br />
&#8211;1) condoms are far too accessible. (granted that NOW reducing them would only increase the number of issues for a large period of time)<br />
&#8211;2) sexual education is about as effective as most other educations. Common sense in each generation is receding. It&#8217;s a trait that is being lost as time goes by.<br />
Condoms, like abortion, were made to solve a problem. But Condoms, like abortion, were made too accessible and made to be everyday things.<br />
So the issue all in all cannot be blamed on any one party as much as seen to be something worth fixing.</p>
<p>We cannot simply get rid of condoms. Isn&#8217;t gonna happen. But the education of them, the education towards our selves can be bettered.<br />
I don&#8217;t know how we can better it or make it more effective but surely I&#8217;m working on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Warner</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-2876</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=889#comment-2876</guid>
		<description>&quot;It seems like people here are not willing to love you and me&quot;???

Just because somebody disagrees with you means you&#039;re not loved?  I&#039;m very confused, Kimi.

And just because nobody responds on a blog comment section doesn&#039;t mean you aren&#039;t loved either.  I think most people understand that.  Most people have higher priorities in life than responding to endless comments on a random blog post.

Albert, I appreciate your insights.  And I actually addressed most of them in the article and in subsequent comments.  Which is partially why there was no need to respond.

Condoms - while they help in individual instances of physical health - actually make the overall problem worse.  This is what the pope said.  This is what the scientific research is now confirming.

Kimi, the source of the research was cited IN the actual blog post if you&#039;re interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It seems like people here are not willing to love you and me&#8221;???</p>
<p>Just because somebody disagrees with you means you&#8217;re not loved?  I&#8217;m very confused, Kimi.</p>
<p>And just because nobody responds on a blog comment section doesn&#8217;t mean you aren&#8217;t loved either.  I think most people understand that.  Most people have higher priorities in life than responding to endless comments on a random blog post.</p>
<p>Albert, I appreciate your insights.  And I actually addressed most of them in the article and in subsequent comments.  Which is partially why there was no need to respond.</p>
<p>Condoms &#8211; while they help in individual instances of physical health &#8211; actually make the overall problem worse.  This is what the pope said.  This is what the scientific research is now confirming.</p>
<p>Kimi, the source of the research was cited IN the actual blog post if you&#8217;re interested.</p>
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		<title>By: Kimi</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-2846</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 05:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=889#comment-2846</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Albert. I&#039;m sad that in 5 days, no one here has responded to you. I would hope that if people care about Africans, they would be eager to learn more from you. It seems like people here are not willing to love you and me. 

Albert, if you come back here, would you be willing to talk more about Africa?  Have you seen any evidence that condoms would encourage rape there? It seems extremely unlikely to me. I&#039;m also trying to understand why some people believe that where large numbers of people are already promiscuous that keeping condoms away from them would suddenly change their behavior if they&#039;ve never had access to condoms in the first place. That seems like wishful thinking to me. 

I am sad that no one here has shown concern for the babies who die after their innocent mothers die of AIDS. These women have had no way to refuse husbands who routinely have sex with other people. I have a deep abiding respect for life and it pains me to know that people do not care to offer viable solutions on how to save these mothers and their children. Perhaps they wish mothers and babies to die to teach the men a lesson. It&#039;s easy from a distance to be righteous and have faith in our own expertise.

I&#039;m also concerned that people here tell me I&#039;m wrong and refer to evidence that they don&#039;t cite or even summarize. Imaginary evidence? Why are they so eager to argue that I am wrong when they have shown no signs that they have made an attempt to understand or to clarify?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Albert. I&#8217;m sad that in 5 days, no one here has responded to you. I would hope that if people care about Africans, they would be eager to learn more from you. It seems like people here are not willing to love you and me. </p>
<p>Albert, if you come back here, would you be willing to talk more about Africa?  Have you seen any evidence that condoms would encourage rape there? It seems extremely unlikely to me. I&#8217;m also trying to understand why some people believe that where large numbers of people are already promiscuous that keeping condoms away from them would suddenly change their behavior if they&#8217;ve never had access to condoms in the first place. That seems like wishful thinking to me. </p>
<p>I am sad that no one here has shown concern for the babies who die after their innocent mothers die of AIDS. These women have had no way to refuse husbands who routinely have sex with other people. I have a deep abiding respect for life and it pains me to know that people do not care to offer viable solutions on how to save these mothers and their children. Perhaps they wish mothers and babies to die to teach the men a lesson. It&#8217;s easy from a distance to be righteous and have faith in our own expertise.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also concerned that people here tell me I&#8217;m wrong and refer to evidence that they don&#8217;t cite or even summarize. Imaginary evidence? Why are they so eager to argue that I am wrong when they have shown no signs that they have made an attempt to understand or to clarify?</p>
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		<title>By: Kayleigh</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-2667</link>
		<dc:creator>Kayleigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=889#comment-2667</guid>
		<description>This is a great article...I will definitely be sharing it with some of my friends who were very confused about this issue. Thanks so much for being the voice of so many who are too busy, shy, etc to speak up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great article&#8230;I will definitely be sharing it with some of my friends who were very confused about this issue. Thanks so much for being the voice of so many who are too busy, shy, etc to speak up.</p>
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		<title>By: albert</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-2650</link>
		<dc:creator>albert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=889#comment-2650</guid>
		<description>Sad to say, but abstinence is still a wishfull dream for many! sure norms are, should&#039;s are, but this world is not inhabited by angels alone. human beeings are as they are: &#039;the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak&#039;Mt26:41. May be as an african, I&#039;m more authorised to speak in the name of africans than many...beeing myself an african who lost friends and family members due to hiv/aids. Yes,Condom alone isn&#039;t THE solution, but is it fair that the fault or failure of one would make perish entire family? have you ever counted the number of orphans (thousands and maybe millions), child deaths due to aids in africa? Even if condom were sin, it&#039;s better to save innocent lives with that &#039;sin&#039; than not to. Let&#039;s say it again: flesh is weak, and aids is not only for prostitutes and wicked people, it happens to moral and religious people who just once sinned. preachers and nones get it, &#039;happy couples&#039; get it... For one &#039;failure&#039; you and me can get it and condemn our children and spouses... one single but fatal casuality can happen to the &#039;best&#039; with or without condom. So as the &#039;slogan&#039; says in my country: &#039;abstinence yes, faithfulness sure, but if you can&#039;t resist, then condom please&#039;. God bless you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sad to say, but abstinence is still a wishfull dream for many! sure norms are, should&#8217;s are, but this world is not inhabited by angels alone. human beeings are as they are: &#8216;the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak&#8217;Mt26:41. May be as an african, I&#8217;m more authorised to speak in the name of africans than many&#8230;beeing myself an african who lost friends and family members due to hiv/aids. Yes,Condom alone isn&#8217;t THE solution, but is it fair that the fault or failure of one would make perish entire family? have you ever counted the number of orphans (thousands and maybe millions), child deaths due to aids in africa? Even if condom were sin, it&#8217;s better to save innocent lives with that &#8216;sin&#8217; than not to. Let&#8217;s say it again: flesh is weak, and aids is not only for prostitutes and wicked people, it happens to moral and religious people who just once sinned. preachers and nones get it, &#8216;happy couples&#8217; get it&#8230; For one &#8216;failure&#8217; you and me can get it and condemn our children and spouses&#8230; one single but fatal casuality can happen to the &#8216;best&#8217; with or without condom. So as the &#8216;slogan&#8217; says in my country: &#8216;abstinence yes, faithfulness sure, but if you can&#8217;t resist, then condom please&#8217;. God bless you!</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Warner</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-2645</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=889#comment-2645</guid>
		<description>Exactly Aaron.  Kimi- you&#039;re missing the point.  While a condom may indeed help in preventing a specific instance of infection because of a rape, promisuity, etc. By introducing and distributing them we actually feed the bigger problem...making instances of rape, promiscuity more common while lowering the overall &quot;humanization of sexuality&quot; (what the Pope identifies as the source of the problem).  

So while it can often seem like the loving thing to do in a particular instance, it actually is not the loving thing to do at all - because it perpetuates a bigger problem of suffering.  If we truly LOVE them, then we must find OTHER ways to help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly Aaron.  Kimi- you&#8217;re missing the point.  While a condom may indeed help in preventing a specific instance of infection because of a rape, promisuity, etc. By introducing and distributing them we actually feed the bigger problem&#8230;making instances of rape, promiscuity more common while lowering the overall &#8220;humanization of sexuality&#8221; (what the Pope identifies as the source of the problem).  </p>
<p>So while it can often seem like the loving thing to do in a particular instance, it actually is not the loving thing to do at all &#8211; because it perpetuates a bigger problem of suffering.  If we truly LOVE them, then we must find OTHER ways to help.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-2644</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=889#comment-2644</guid>
		<description>As John Ross said, &quot;Common sense is what tells us the earth is flat.&quot;  Kimi, maybe it /seems/ like condoms would have to save innocent lives, but the evidence is clear that on balance they don&#039;t.  When reality defies what our common sense tells us should happen, we should check our assumptions, not just keep repeating them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As John Ross said, &#8220;Common sense is what tells us the earth is flat.&#8221;  Kimi, maybe it /seems/ like condoms would have to save innocent lives, but the evidence is clear that on balance they don&#8217;t.  When reality defies what our common sense tells us should happen, we should check our assumptions, not just keep repeating them.</p>
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		<title>By: Kimi</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/catholics-on-condoms-for-aids-in-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-2618</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 05:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=889#comment-2618</guid>
		<description>Cindy, as Pope Benedict said, the best solutions come through humanizing human beings and in building friendships with the suffering. To put it more generally, the best solutions come from our love.

Until we can succeed in humanizing and befriending however, promiscuity, the norm without exception in many places, sadly continues. Saying that it shouldn&#039;t does nothing to change that fact anyplace except perhaps in someone&#039;s self-directed thoughts. We can only begin to change the fact of promiscuity through deep and direct love. 

When promiscuity already dominates in some areas in spite of the death sentence associated with it, common sense says that condoms can and do prevent the spread of disease. Most importantly, they protect innocent wives from the expected promiscuous behavior of their husbands, behavior that the women are helpless to stop. By protecting married women, condoms can prevent some innocent children from becoming orphans and dying from neglect. A child with a living mother is also less likely to be forced into prostitution and repeat the cycle. 

Of course, the pope is correct in saying that &quot;the scourge can&#039;t be solved by distributing condoms.&quot; We need to do much more. But in the meantime, condoms can and do save innocent lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cindy, as Pope Benedict said, the best solutions come through humanizing human beings and in building friendships with the suffering. To put it more generally, the best solutions come from our love.</p>
<p>Until we can succeed in humanizing and befriending however, promiscuity, the norm without exception in many places, sadly continues. Saying that it shouldn&#8217;t does nothing to change that fact anyplace except perhaps in someone&#8217;s self-directed thoughts. We can only begin to change the fact of promiscuity through deep and direct love. </p>
<p>When promiscuity already dominates in some areas in spite of the death sentence associated with it, common sense says that condoms can and do prevent the spread of disease. Most importantly, they protect innocent wives from the expected promiscuous behavior of their husbands, behavior that the women are helpless to stop. By protecting married women, condoms can prevent some innocent children from becoming orphans and dying from neglect. A child with a living mother is also less likely to be forced into prostitution and repeat the cycle. </p>
<p>Of course, the pope is correct in saying that &#8220;the scourge can&#8217;t be solved by distributing condoms.&#8221; We need to do much more. But in the meantime, condoms can and do save innocent lives.</p>
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