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	<title>Comments on: Always Talk About Religion and Politics</title>
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	<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/</link>
	<description>A Catholic Social Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: 7 Quick Takes Friday (vol. 2) &#124; Catholic Unveiled</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-50387</link>
		<dc:creator>7 Quick Takes Friday (vol. 2) &#124; Catholic Unveiled</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 22:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=925#comment-50387</guid>
		<description>[...] Blogma: Always Talk About Religion and Politics, and the Not Just Another Denomination series Part 1 and Part [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Blogma: Always Talk About Religion and Politics, and the Not Just Another Denomination series Part 1 and Part [...]</p>
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		<title>By: lozen</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-46919</link>
		<dc:creator>lozen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Mar 2011 21:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=925#comment-46919</guid>
		<description>Gordon you are so right.  I love George Carlin&#039;s book &quot;When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops?&quot;  I especially like this rant: &#039;People who believe in UFOs are thought of as dingbats whereas those who believe in an eternal, all powerful being who demands to be loved and adored unconditionally and who rewards and punishes according to his whims are thought to be worthy, upright, creditable people.&#039; Know what I mean? Jelly bean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon you are so right.  I love George Carlin&#8217;s book &#8220;When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops?&#8221;  I especially like this rant: &#8216;People who believe in UFOs are thought of as dingbats whereas those who believe in an eternal, all powerful being who demands to be loved and adored unconditionally and who rewards and punishes according to his whims are thought to be worthy, upright, creditable people.&#8217; Know what I mean? Jelly bean.</p>
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		<title>By: CatholicMom.com &#187; Columnists Lisa Jones &#187; Discussing Differences by Lisa Jones</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-30920</link>
		<dc:creator>CatholicMom.com &#187; Columnists Lisa Jones &#187; Discussing Differences by Lisa Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 21:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=925#comment-30920</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
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		<title>By: Patricia  Weber</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-28575</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia  Weber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=925#comment-28575</guid>
		<description>Great ideas Matthew.  

&quot;Why is it that we would be comfortable not discussing two of the most important things in our existence – our freedom (politics) and our purpose (religion)? Kind of strange isn’t it?&quot; Part of it IS that we were taught not to. And then THAT myth just perpetuates. So then your operative word of having &quot;thoughtful&quot; discussions rarely happens because we are frozen with those old limiting beliefs.

Thank you for saying that it is OK and even right to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great ideas Matthew.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Why is it that we would be comfortable not discussing two of the most important things in our existence – our freedom (politics) and our purpose (religion)? Kind of strange isn’t it?&#8221; Part of it IS that we were taught not to. And then THAT myth just perpetuates. So then your operative word of having &#8220;thoughtful&#8221; discussions rarely happens because we are frozen with those old limiting beliefs.</p>
<p>Thank you for saying that it is OK and even right to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-24937</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 04:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=925#comment-24937</guid>
		<description>I find humor works well. Like with this blog I put in as a web site I like to read. Humor can expand the mind and relieve the tension of the discussion, esp., if its done in a slightly absurdest way, much in the same way that science fiction can detail things, reflect things back at us about our selves, our culture, but its ok because its about aliens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find humor works well. Like with this blog I put in as a web site I like to read. Humor can expand the mind and relieve the tension of the discussion, esp., if its done in a slightly absurdest way, much in the same way that science fiction can detail things, reflect things back at us about our selves, our culture, but its ok because its about aliens.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Warner</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-24751</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 06:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=925#comment-24751</guid>
		<description>Sweet article, Julian!  Thanks for sharing. And a really cool site as well to go with! I like what I&#039;ve seen on it so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sweet article, Julian!  Thanks for sharing. And a really cool site as well to go with! I like what I&#8217;ve seen on it so far.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-24745</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 01:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=925#comment-24745</guid>
		<description>Chesterton I think said something along the lines of all disagreements are based on religion in one way or another.  I do love to discuss religion and politics, and in fact any topic of depth, but I have found most people like to keep their conversations superficial since that is their area of expertise.  Also, if one is interested in searching for the truth or is curious about the faith, that is quite different than talking to those arguing against it with a closed mind.  I avoid the latter since it leads to them usually saying something insulting or unnecessary.  Anyway here is an interesting article on debating politics like a gentleman (the site has other articles that I have found useful and not oppositional to Catholic sensibilities).
http://artofmanliness.com/2008/09/21/how-to-debate-politics-civilly/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chesterton I think said something along the lines of all disagreements are based on religion in one way or another.  I do love to discuss religion and politics, and in fact any topic of depth, but I have found most people like to keep their conversations superficial since that is their area of expertise.  Also, if one is interested in searching for the truth or is curious about the faith, that is quite different than talking to those arguing against it with a closed mind.  I avoid the latter since it leads to them usually saying something insulting or unnecessary.  Anyway here is an interesting article on debating politics like a gentleman (the site has other articles that I have found useful and not oppositional to Catholic sensibilities).<br />
<a href="http://artofmanliness.com/2008/09/21/how-to-debate-politics-civilly/" rel="nofollow">http://artofmanliness.com/2008/09/21/how-to-debate-politics-civilly/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Michelle Leslie</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-3309</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=925#comment-3309</guid>
		<description>Great blog!

Glad somebody wrote about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great blog!</p>
<p>Glad somebody wrote about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Warner</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-3251</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 14:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=925#comment-3251</guid>
		<description>Actually, I totally disagree with that.  I&#039;ve learned quite a bit from our discussions (which is exactly what they were).

I can say very similar things about discussions and relationships I have with many of my good friends with whom I passionately disagree. When I wrote this I wasn&#039;t basing it on theory. I was basing it on experience.

I think maybe you&#039;re looking at the wrong measuring stick. I&#039;m not saying people&#039;s minds are necessarily totally changed on their fundamental position. But I can definitely say I come away understanding the other person&#039;s point of view a lot better. And I can definitely say that I&#039;m much less likely to sum up that person&#039;s belief as stupid or unthoughtful. And I definitely come away understanding a little bit more about why that person disagrees with me in the first place.

And if I was acting with any ill-prejudice I can guarantee you it&#039;s been exposed and I embarrassed for holding such. And if I was being completely illogical there&#039;s a good chance that&#039;s been pointed out to me now causing me to rethink it a lot more.

And on the flip side, I can&#039;t begin to count the conversations I&#039;ve had with people on a topic like religion where it caused each of us to think about a particular point more deeply than we&#039;ve ever thought about it before.

I&#039;m fairly sure you can say the same. I hardly think that&#039;s a waste of time. Those are all good things. We need more of it...not less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I totally disagree with that.  I&#8217;ve learned quite a bit from our discussions (which is exactly what they were).</p>
<p>I can say very similar things about discussions and relationships I have with many of my good friends with whom I passionately disagree. When I wrote this I wasn&#8217;t basing it on theory. I was basing it on experience.</p>
<p>I think maybe you&#8217;re looking at the wrong measuring stick. I&#8217;m not saying people&#8217;s minds are necessarily totally changed on their fundamental position. But I can definitely say I come away understanding the other person&#8217;s point of view a lot better. And I can definitely say that I&#8217;m much less likely to sum up that person&#8217;s belief as stupid or unthoughtful. And I definitely come away understanding a little bit more about why that person disagrees with me in the first place.</p>
<p>And if I was acting with any ill-prejudice I can guarantee you it&#8217;s been exposed and I embarrassed for holding such. And if I was being completely illogical there&#8217;s a good chance that&#8217;s been pointed out to me now causing me to rethink it a lot more.</p>
<p>And on the flip side, I can&#8217;t begin to count the conversations I&#8217;ve had with people on a topic like religion where it caused each of us to think about a particular point more deeply than we&#8217;ve ever thought about it before.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m fairly sure you can say the same. I hardly think that&#8217;s a waste of time. Those are all good things. We need more of it&#8230;not less.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-3236</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 05:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=925#comment-3236</guid>
		<description>&quot;We put it out there (respectfully of course)…however passionate and prejudice we may be and we let it collide with the passions and prejudices of opposing sides. The grinding together is what lessens the prejudice and clears away misguided passions to eventually reveal this objectivity we desire and ultimately the truth.&quot;

Funny, you just summed up why I think they say politics and religion shouldn&#039;t be discussed. Think about the last time you had a politcal discussion. How many of your own &#039;misguided passions&#039; were cleared up in your conversation? Did either party come to an &#039;ultimate truth&#039;? 

It sounds great on paper, but the reality is it doesn&#039;t work that way. Not to say we shouldn&#039;t try. But ask yourself how many times you have had your own misguided passions er....reguided...after a discussion about politics or religion. I know that just in the discussions you and I have had the answer would be zero...mine would also be zero...funny how that works. :)

I think when it is said that one shouldn&#039;t discuss politics or religion, I think it&#039;s more of play on &quot;why waste your time&quot;. At least that&#039;s how I always perceived that saying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We put it out there (respectfully of course)…however passionate and prejudice we may be and we let it collide with the passions and prejudices of opposing sides. The grinding together is what lessens the prejudice and clears away misguided passions to eventually reveal this objectivity we desire and ultimately the truth.&#8221;</p>
<p>Funny, you just summed up why I think they say politics and religion shouldn&#8217;t be discussed. Think about the last time you had a politcal discussion. How many of your own &#8216;misguided passions&#8217; were cleared up in your conversation? Did either party come to an &#8216;ultimate truth&#8217;? </p>
<p>It sounds great on paper, but the reality is it doesn&#8217;t work that way. Not to say we shouldn&#8217;t try. But ask yourself how many times you have had your own misguided passions er&#8230;.reguided&#8230;after a discussion about politics or religion. I know that just in the discussions you and I have had the answer would be zero&#8230;mine would also be zero&#8230;funny how that works. :)</p>
<p>I think when it is said that one shouldn&#8217;t discuss politics or religion, I think it&#8217;s more of play on &#8220;why waste your time&#8221;. At least that&#8217;s how I always perceived that saying.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Warner</title>
		<link>http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/always-talk-about-religion-and-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-3233</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 03:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=925#comment-3233</guid>
		<description>Great thoughts, Phil!  But I think if we don&#039;t attempt the discussion of these important topics (no matter how difficult or frustrating they can be at times) then the prejudice and lack of objectivity goes unchecked - which makes it worse.

I don&#039;t think we can let the possibility of prejudice or passion keep us from discussing these topics.  And I think that if you TRULY believe in something and you&#039;re NOT trying to persuade people to it then you probably don&#039;t actually believe it all that much.

I think that hits on another part of the problem - and that&#039;s our age of relativism.  There is a loss of the sense of any kind of objectivity in the first place. There is a sense that every point of view must be treated as equally valid simply because somebody holds it. That&#039;s weird. In an objective reality one side will always be nearer the truth than the other on a particular point. Our goal must be to work together to find that objective truth...not to muddle it with uncertainty, lack of discussion, or a false sense of &quot;balance.&quot;

We put it out there (respectfully of course)...however passionate and prejudice we may be and we let it collide with the passions and prejudices of opposing sides.  The grinding together is what lessens the prejudice and clears away misguided passions to eventually reveal this objectivity we desire and ultimately the truth.

If we bottle it all up or only express it in bubbles of affirmation, the prejudice and misguidance flourish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great thoughts, Phil!  But I think if we don&#8217;t attempt the discussion of these important topics (no matter how difficult or frustrating they can be at times) then the prejudice and lack of objectivity goes unchecked &#8211; which makes it worse.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we can let the possibility of prejudice or passion keep us from discussing these topics.  And I think that if you TRULY believe in something and you&#8217;re NOT trying to persuade people to it then you probably don&#8217;t actually believe it all that much.</p>
<p>I think that hits on another part of the problem &#8211; and that&#8217;s our age of relativism.  There is a loss of the sense of any kind of objectivity in the first place. There is a sense that every point of view must be treated as equally valid simply because somebody holds it. That&#8217;s weird. In an objective reality one side will always be nearer the truth than the other on a particular point. Our goal must be to work together to find that objective truth&#8230;not to muddle it with uncertainty, lack of discussion, or a false sense of &#8220;balance.&#8221;</p>
<p>We put it out there (respectfully of course)&#8230;however passionate and prejudice we may be and we let it collide with the passions and prejudices of opposing sides.  The grinding together is what lessens the prejudice and clears away misguided passions to eventually reveal this objectivity we desire and ultimately the truth.</p>
<p>If we bottle it all up or only express it in bubbles of affirmation, the prejudice and misguidance flourish.</p>
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